Seems Like Someone's Rooting for the Wrong Side

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

Saruman was in fact a good villain, as well as Gollum, yet the fans the thread is referring to seem to forget that these fellows, despite their dynamics, were evil in the end. Yes, they can be liked as characters, but when Tolkien fans start treating them like the Messiah, that's not right.

Seriously, why isn't it 'right'? Right and wrong don't come into it when thinking about a book as you're free to enjoy the characters in whatever way you like. Remember Tolkien's work is not scripture, it's literature, it's Art. Even if it were scripture (which I think some people think it is for some reason) you're still free to treat it in any way you like.

There are some Downers who happen to love Orcs, think Melkor is ace and have crushes on Grima. So what? They aren't wrong, but it's definitely wrong to say they are wrong for that as it's a free choice.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Seriously, why isn't it 'right'? Right and wrong don't come into it when thinking about a book as you're free to enjoy the characters in whatever way you like. Remember Tolkien's work is not scripture, it's literature, it's Art. Even if it were scripture (which I think some people think it is for some reason) you're still free to treat it in any way you like.

I meant to a nearly-cultist point. Letting fiction have such a grand effect on your life like that is what's messed up.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

There are some Downers who happen to love Orcs, think Melkor is ace and have crushes on Grima. So what? They aren't wrong, but it's definitely wrong to say they are wrong for that as it's a free choice.

They aren't hated, but their reasoning is not very fleshed out. In the end, orcs are just rude and brutal animals.

[CaptainofDespair]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

They aren't hated, but their reasoning is not very fleshed out. In the end, orcs are just rude and brutal animals.

One could say the same of humans.

In any case, I feel (as a card-carrying member of the "I Heart the Witch-King" Fan Club) that I can at least speak for myself, and just maybe, some of the "evil-lovers" out there. Or not.

Evil is an exciting element. It allows one to be put into a mindset that is apart from, and yet similar to, that of Good. It can be quite enthralling. And so, to cheer for the vile is to cheer for the hopelessly doomed to defeat. It's fun to watch that downfall. There's not much suspense (as you may be able to guess quite well how the Enemy always causes its own end), but you can still sit back and watch the fireworks. Looking at things from the side of Good, the "miraculous" nature of every victory is always a bother.

There are, of course, more reasons. But I feel this one is enough.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

I meant to a nearly-cultist point. Letting fiction have such a grand effect on your life like that is what's messed up.

Well I'd agree with that! You could say I'm obsessed, in fact if someone who wasn't a fan of Tolkien walked into our house they would start rolling their eyes and muttering about "weird nerds..." or something like that. But there are degrees of obsession. What can be charming and eccentric can quickly become disturbing - such as the woman I used to know who lived as a Klingon (had a Klingon wedding and spoke Klingon at home) who did indeed prove to be delusional as she locked herself and her husband in the cellar with survival supplies (and little hats made of tinfoil) over the Millennium eve...

But do you really know anyone who follows the dark forces of Tolkien's work to that extent? I don't, and I've been a fan since the early 80s - any Orcs fans I know treat is purely as fun. Most of the borderline obsessives are fans of Elves or Hobbits.

Originally Posted by Raynor

I don't think that literature dealing with overcoming one's shortcomings, fears, or with finding purpose or inspiration, or actualising an ideal is worthless. And such subjects don't require bad guys.

Is there any though? Even if there are no 'bad guys', then there at least 'bad things' to be dealt with. The only literature which approaches that (that I can think of) is some descriptive poetry, e.g. some of Keats' Odes, and this is not lengthy stuff, suggesting it cannot be stomached at great length by the reader or indeed the writer!

[Elmo]

We must all bow down and worship Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, because remember, darkness itself is worshipful.