Werewolf XXX - Tol-in-Elendili - The Isle of the Were-Faithfuls

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Rikae

What can I say? I voted early because (as I said on the admin thread before the game started, I believe), I wasn't sure if I would make it back in time to vote again

I could not find this on the admin thread.

As it is, neither Rikae nor Mithalwen has convinced me of their innocence. The evidence against them seems greater than the evidence pointing to their innocence.

However, Garin is the person who stands out most today after his voting. What on Arda was that? First he voted with no justification, then he backed down under pressure. If he is not a Faithful, he must be Tar-Miriel (after a quick sex-change, of course). The sooner we rid ourselves of him the better.

++GARIN

This is my last post today. Farewell.

[Roa_Aoife]

I was hoping to hang around till the end, but I have to be leaving.

So far, my top suspects are Garin and SPM. Garin, for that weird display before he left, and SPM for everything I've alread stated. (Because, Annatar knows Nogrod's never acted like that before. Ever. Nope. Totally anti-Nogrod. [And yes, that was sarcasm.]

Tempting as it is to vote Garin, I'm going to let him slide on the possibility that he may have been rushed. For now. That doesn't mean that I won't be looking at him later.


++SPM

Hopefully I'll see you on the Morrow.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

I could not find this on the admin thread.

I went back and looked and you're right - I said "Tuesday and Thursday".
Mondays vary - believe me or not, but I couldn't be sure if I'd get a chance to vote; I suppose I should have said so.

[Roa_Aoife]

Durlein -> Manwe
Rikae -> Manwe
Manwe -> Nogrod
Thin -> Rikae
Garin -> Nogrod
Garin -> (-Nogord) Rikae
Briniel -> Rikae
TGWBS -> Garin
Roa -> SPM
Kitanna -> Garin

Rikae 3, Manwe 2, Garin 2, SPM 1, Nogrod 1

Left to vote:

Gil-Galad
Glirdan
Holbytlass
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rune Son of Bjarne
The Saucepan Man

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not sure I will have a chance to check again before deadline so I have to cast my vote now. . .I would like to vote Legate, more or less on a gut feeling, but I do not want to spread the vote more around so I will have to go for Garin, I think him more likely to be wolf than Mänwe.

++Garin

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just to that "Legate is pushing himself in the Hookbill issue" thing, I was merely wanting to comment the few posts which have been before me, between my last post and that one, and it was not supposed to be the main point of my post, the main part of my post was the rest.

Since much has happened here since my last post, and since it is not much time of daylight left, I am not given much time to rething everything properly and less yet to post some more ideas here. The main concern is now to vote, right? Well, I have the same feeling like writing a test at school, that type of test where you have to mark correct answer, and you don't have a clue and must choose. In these cases, although the answer which seems most likely to me might not be correct, I'd rather be mistaken by choosing what seems likely to me than make a stupid mistake by choosing something which even seems less likely to me. Therefore, I stand with my early suspicion, at least I was more sure at that point than I am now.

++Mänwe

[Rikae]

I can tell you this much - I don't know anything for certain about either Manwe or Garin.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Roa

You had the unfortunate responsibility of being the Mirth Mod when the ugly incident went down about playing styles, and niceness, and respect, etc, so you know how Nogrod and I are when we are "berating" anyone.

By "berating", I did not mean to imply that either you or Nogrod where being offensive in the terms of the incident you refer to, and I apologise if it came across that way. My intention was merely to note as interesting (and, potentially, a relevant consideration) your seeming annoyance that so few were posting at that early stage.

Originally Posted by Roa

I was responding to Manwe when I said that.

Originally Posted by Roa

As to my accusers, (Manwe and SPM, and anyone else who I missed).

I never "jumped on" Glirdan.

I understood from the latter that you were also responding to me.

Originally Posted by Roa

That's a big IF.

Of course it is. But I was considering it in the context of the other points that I have raised. The point has been made that there is generally very little to go on on Day 1. I have been doing no more than outlining the points that I have found suspicious today. Of course I cannot be sure that my suspicions are well-founded. No one can (with one possible exception).

Originally Posted by Roa

No explanation as to why?

For the same reason that I regard the others who have been busy making cases against Manwe as suspicious. He presented himself as an easy target in the opening stages. He may well be a Faithful, or a Cobbler, for all I know. But I don't get that impression from what he has posted so far.

Originally Posted by Roa

It does, but not what you intended to clarify.

You seem to have made your mind up. There is little more that I can add to what I have said already.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm a bit troubled by SPaM. But probably not enough to vote for him toDay. He would make a fine were-faithful and a darn good cobbler (I remember that one still... ) but lynching him with no better points than what I have now I find a bit too risky. If he's innocent he surely is an asset to us all.

I could well say the same about you. But, then again, the point equally applies to Rikae, my other main suspect today.

As for others who are bubbling in my suspicions:

Garin: It practically goes without saying that his behaviour over the Nogrod/Rikae vote was odd. But then, as Mith has noted, Garin is a specialist at looking guilty when he's innocent.

Holby: Posting enough to be noticed, but saying very little. It's normal for her to be relatively quiet, but she's deadly with it when she's a Wolf (or, in current terminology, a Faithful). I'm keeping an eye on her.

Brinniel/Hookbill: That little exchange was interesting, but I'm prepared to put it down to a reaction to misunderstood banter - for now.

Mithalwen: For reasons earlier noted, although I am inclined to take her explanation at face value for the time being.

Still, Nogrod and Rikae remain foremost in my suspicions. It's a difficult one, since both would be a great loss, if innocent (or should I say, corrupt ). But Rikae's seeming enthusiasm for promoting the (then) gathering Manwe bandwaggon looks the more suspicious to me. And I find the explanation unconvincing. There was a large part of the Day to go when she voted.

++RIKAE

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Aaahh! I really don't want to vote because I have no idea who to vote for.
But since time is running out I'll have to make a decision...

Garin's actions were odd, yes, but for now I shall put it down to either sloppy thinking or... I don't know... Gnomes. I can't vote for him now because there really isn't enough evidence to support a lynching. I think that whoever I vote for will probably be wrong so I'll have to go with my first instincts.

Manwe acted rather oddly and I must say relatively weirdly. I don't know the fellow well enough to gage weather or not it is his usual style or not or weather I am basing it all on because he said I was shifty... but I really do not have a theory at the moment so...

++ Manwe

Sorry, Manwe, I'm really stuck for ideas. If you get lynched and I'm wrong... I'll give you a pot 'o golds.

[Mithalwen]

I must register disagreement with some of this post of Roa's.

Wolves will usually refrain from killing an ordinary innocent who is garnering suspicion since it indeed shields them and they aren't going to waste a night kill on someone who they have a chance of getting lynched. However I would be astonished is wolves let anyone they suspected of being a gifted survive - unless it was the Hunter.



Well someone has to look at Roa....

[Rikae]

I agree with Mith; Roa's comment looks either poorly thought out or deliberately misleading. Since we're talking about Roa, we can obviously leave out the first option...

[Mithalwen]

I wish Lalaith had posted more - her single post has made me uneasy because I am not sure she would misconstrue it accidentally.

Manwe - well it can be dangerous to give people the benefit of the doubt but he just seems new to me..... but of course he might also be a new wolf...

Rikae dear ...... I have to go and see why everyone else finds you suspicious - I will be very careful before I give you the benefit of the doubt again...

A first day vote for the Pan Man would be traditional but this squabbling between him and Roa is puzzling. But if I were going to choose the two players most likely to argue the toss.....(well Nog would also be a challenger )but....

This is hard. Everyone apart from the Might who seems to have withdrawn definitely has posted but not enough to fully get a handle on.

This village is much quieter than I expected.

[Holbytlass]

++Garin

[Durelin]

I might let my vote stand where it is, as though I find Rikae and Garin to be acting oddly, I don't feel like I have enough to go on them. Well, not that I really have enough to go on with Manwe, either. I know a lot of people have been overlooked by all of us, but especially when you have this many people in a village, if you try and look at everyone you'll just confuse yourself! Or, I will. If anyone thinks they can do it, please go right ahead.

Related to that note, I do agree with you, Mith, about Roa. She's loud and seems dying to lynch SPaM, but she hasn't gotten much notice. She calls him grasping, but I think surely the same could be said of her. We're all grasping for something, because someone's getting lynched, and we're trying our darnedest to get a baddie! And considering it's Day 1, there's not much to grab on to.

But as I said, Day 1, 21? villagers...insane.

Sorry, TGWBS, I totally missed this from earlier:

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Why were you worried by Glirdan not saying much, but not Kath?

Only because he was rather hypocritical. Kath made no remark about how more people should be talking, while Glirdan said "ooo, no posting going on" and "I hope there's more posting when I return" but did nothing about that. Perhaps he was not as negative about it as I likely read into his post, but...it just stood out to me more than Kath's post did. And since then, she has at least contributed some. Though, now that I think on it...I recall her posting and making remarks, but nothing really stands out to me. Makes we wonder if she's trying to maintain a helpful presence while not really making any points and/or accusations, to try and remain safe. I may be remembering completely wrong...I need to go through her posts again...

Hookbill brings up an interesting point about Manwe here that I missed:

Originally Posted by Hookbill

Now, the main reason I've refrained from joining these games is because I'm not too good a judge of character and I tend not to read into what people say... but it seems to me that you are hinting at Old Saucepan 'O as being a what do you call it... seer or whatever. Surely suggesting it would put him in danger and we would want to keep him in case he proves helpful, and shouting, "I say! I think he's the seer" will surely either lead the wolves / Were Faithfuls onto him. So... bad form old chap...

Bad form indeed. Makes me think he might be the Cobbler, rather than a Were-Faithful.

Originally Posted by Manwe

And I still want to see Nogrod lynched.

I've always disliked those sorts of remarks. People are deemed suspicious often by their "waffling" or by seeming to be uncertain, but certainty, feigned or unfeigned, bothers me. So Roa's posts have been bothering me, but I believe that to be her style. Still, style or not, I will not dismiss it.

Argh, but Nogrod brings up a good point - one I quite agree with, and I believe touched on earlier. We always go after the same people, the ones that are perhaps "easy targets." I'm sure part of it is that we all (well, most of us) want to survive, at least for a few Days. But does that mean the "easy targets" necessarily aren't baddies? I tend to dismiss bold people as likely innocents, and I feel like that's a bad habit, though going after only the bold ones is one, too.

Ah, Middle Road, where have you gone? Oh, yeah...this is WW.

Nogrod - You suggested the possibility of looking at things anew. Any new thoughts?

Edit: Crossed with Holby, Lalaith

[Nogrod]

One thing that kind of bothers me - I tend to get this nagging feeling everytime the Day starts to draw near to an end - that maybe the werecreatures play exactly the way I think they should play if they were to win nicely. I mean being non-confrontational and relaxed, out of everyone's minds and eyes, far away from the center of discussion where the innocents bite each other.

If I ask this question from myself I must say that quite many of us do qualify. It is quite funny that although we all know this we still go with those who arouse the most discussion.

It's probably a bit too late to turn the pile upside down and start looking at it anew. Although with nine votes left (+retrackies) everything is open in principle.

[Lalaith]

I'm back. Things aren't quite as bad as I thought (I was fully expecting 5-6 pages a la duelling wizards) but still there's a lot of catching up to do.
I have no idea at this stage who is and isn't a Faithful. But I've got a hunch about Tar-Cobbler.
I like not this:

Although quite frankly I'm not sure who we're to pray to.

This may of course be a passing comment, but really, those of us who are true Numenoreans are quite sure who to pray to - the great Annatar. Could this be a leetle smokesignal to those wretched werefaithfuls?
So, with so little to go on, I will cast a vote 'gainst heresy,

++HOLBYTLASS


Oh and two more thoughts:
All these quarrels and squabbles. There are those who like to pass the first day or so in this fashion and so be it, life's rich tapestry, blah blah. Nothing wrong with that. But what I don't like is rows that appear from nowhere and then miraculously blow over with no trace. Tis a wolvish trick, I think.
I also agree with Garin, the wolves, being four, may well be preparing an early sacrifice.

[Nogrod]

A few comments on some people I haven't yet have time to look at closer...

I'm a bit puzzled by the way Roa has played toDay. I mean she seems to defend me in every corner. That makes one uneasy. Or maybe she's using me just as her hobby-horse to go after Spm? Anyhow that I need to think toMorrow if I'm still around.

Another one who puzzles me a bit is tgwbs as I think I have agreed with almost everything he's said toDay. That also makes me worried as I see that through agreement I'm getting to trust him.

Kath I'm afraid as I always seem to be. She has posted little hanging under every radar just to possibly sting when the time is ripe. She knows how to do that.

------

And an update on voting:
Durelin -> Manwe
Rikae -> Manwe (Mänwe2)
Manwe -> Nogrod (Mänwe2, Nogrod1)
Thinlomien -> Rikae (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae1)
Garin - > Nogrod (Mänwe2, Nogrod2, Rikae1)
Garin - - Nogrod (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae1)
Garin - > Rikae (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae2)
Brinniel - > Rikae (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae3)
Tgwbs - > Garin (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae3, Garin1)
Roa - > Spm (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae3, Garin1, Spm1)
Kitanna - > Garin (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae3, Garin2, Spm1)
Rune - > Garin (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae3, Garin3, Spm1)
Spm - > Rikae (Mänwe2, Nogrod1, Rikae4, Garin3, Spm1)
Hookbill - > Mänwe (Mänwe3, Nogrod1, Rikae4, Garin3, Spm1)
Holby - > Garin (Mänwe3, Nogrod1, Rikae4, Garin4, Spm1)
Lalaith - > Holby (Mänwe3, Nogrod1, Rikae4, Garin4, Spm1, Holby1)

[Rikae]

It's funny how prophetic the first post turned out to be.

Originally Posted by Mith

Given we don't want to force gifteds to out themselves to save their necks or to out those we think may be gifted in order to defend them, we should remember that that gifteds as well as wolves are liable to give out an "odd" vibe

And here you are about to lynch your seer.

Sorry if this is premature, but with 20 minutes left I didn't dare wait any longer.

[Durelin]

Oh lord, I knew this was going to be off to a bad start...

--Manwe

++Garin

[Mithalwen]

Oh £$%^$$£££ Who best to vote for since the people who I suspect most aren'tthose who others do ..not convinced of Manwe or Garin's guilt but we need our seer ..... arrrgh

[Mithalwen]

Rikae was a very bold wolf last time but...... if she is lying she will get found out ere long and if she tells the truth she will be needed...

[Nogrod]

Rikae I believe would fight back if she'd be a werecreature. So how she is that calm and quiet?
---
Look what I wrote before I saw what Rikae told us just a minute ago!

[Nogrod]

Okay. From between Garin and Mänwe I'd think Mänwe not being a were-faithful (too reckless for that) but possibly a cobbler. There is something cobbleresque in his one track mind stuff...

Garin is just a mystery to me still. A very-very jumpy wolf or just a plain innocent who always gets lynched? Or now as he finally is a werecreature he's even more jumpy than normally?

Oh my.

[Nogrod]

Please Mith, if you have any fresh ideas tell us... although I know the history of last minute "fresh ideas" as they tend to turn out into disasters more often than not if they are taken in at last minutes.

[Lalaith]

Ok Rikae, I'll buy what you've said. Now, given you've had a dream already, tell us what you've seen. In your opinion, is it ok to switch to Garin?

[Durelin]

Wow, there were a lot more people around then I thought. I guess I jumped the gun thinking voting Garin was my only option. Argh.

[Rikae]

It's not that bad - at least I'm not the ranger!

[Roa_Aoife]

Had a few moments and thought I'd check up on the end of the day.

Originally Posted by Rikae

And here you are about to lynch your seer.

Well, that's great.

I'll solve the dilema for you.

--SPM

++Garin

He's the one tied with Rikae, after all.

[Mithalwen]

Lalaith probably would be my choice since I can't decide about Roa and Spm. Usually Lalaith seems fine to me and now she doesn't. Every time I have played with her before seh has either been ordo of gifted. I think I may be playing a Lalith wolf for the first time. But I might be prejudiced.