Werewolf XXX - Tol-in-Elendili - The Isle of the Were-Faithfuls

[Mänwe]

Then we do have crossed fishing lines somewhere. Your words are now as clear as cloudless sky. Though on your point about my accusations I cannot see how they are more ambiguous than everyone elses. The moments after such a horrific event are usually dominated with flying accusations with little evidence.

I picked you because (and in hindsight perhaps wrongly on light of what you actually meant) your pouncing on poor Glirdan's posting seemed only to reflect what everyone else was doing, whether merely commenting on his first activities or labelling him as suspicious I still felt you were following suit with Nogrod and Roa, who also immediately pounced upon him. Glirdan I have noticed seems to be always quickly accused and eliminated. Perhaps he does not help himself still on most occasions he has proven innocent. That was my reasoning for choosing you three. As simple as that. *Points to 1st post, I thought it outlined my reasons for choosing them clear*

I threw SPaM into the furry mix for no other reason that to throw an accusation. That and I am curious as to why he believes that Hookbill is the shady character I am sure he is...that and he was agreeing with what I was saying. Perhaps he is trying to take shelter under my innocent shadow is all I am saying. Though why Nogrod would want to argue against SPaM if SPaM is indeed a Faithful, though strange tactics are always a foot. Perhaps a double bluff...

[Mänwe]

Rikae my throwing accusations is nothing new, it has been done many times before. I am simply trying to help all others get ideas flowing, innocent villagers that is. Mhm, 'forced' perhaps, sincere most certainly. Though I add my accusations are only in light of what ive read, and I pick out particular points of those postings. They are not any old chaff thrown out to disguise the homing in of a missile.

For the moment I stand by what I say, and urge all other villagers to do the same.

++ Nogrod.

[Holbytlass]

Aargh, Macalaure's body isn't even properly taken care of yet and already fingerpointing and votes have occured. And annalyzing?! We are not opposed to this but wow- a few prayers for the dead may be in order and perhaps a few more for inspiration. Although quite frankly I'm not sure who we're to pray to.

I don't find Manwe suspicious at all but these votes that have accumulated already is weird. I know, I know they can be retracted but the fact someone is following someone so closely so early sends red flags.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But what that leaves me - with persons I know even a little - is Holby, Mith and Lommy, neither of whom I would wish to help lynched at this stage (well, who could one wish to lynch at this stage anyhow?).

Let me help you out, at least with me. I am notoriously quiet-although I try not to lurk. Sometimes I'm bad, sometimes I'm good and alot of times I'm extra good. SpM can attest to that.

Originally Posted by Mänwe

And all the talkers are assembled here, sniping away at one another. The talkers ought to talk less before those who talk less become talkers themselves. Besides talk can just as much make things difficult as easy.

Oh, I get this perfectly-they do make it easier.

[Gil-Galad]

i definately got to play it slow now...

i will review and post later in morning, but right now i see that Nogrod and Manwe are under speculation so i will view them

[Garin]

Durelin: I can just imagine a new-Wolf thinking "don't trust those people you've played with before, but trust me."

I assure you that this is not my first venture into such a village. I just haven't been around for nearly a year because of my travels.

I'm still unsettled by Mith's talk of gifteds. It doesn't seem to be something an actual gifted or a ordo villager would dare bring up but one of these Faithfuls or a Cobbler would.

I can understand Manwe wanting to bolster dialog by making blind accusations but the downside is offending the wrong people and taking a quick trip to the gallows. Plus, having to switch to such a defensive mode always makes one look guilty.

Sauce is terribly hard for me to read anything from. If he is innocent, I doubt the Faithfuls will kill him at night because he will probably be viewed as suspicious by us villagers sooner than later.

Roa and Nogrod did seem a little feisty very early on. I already alluded to the fact that Nogrod was more hesitant to lynch some more than others did not sit well with me. It just seemed like an odd first day stance to take.

Did I mention how much I love first day?

That's why Kitanna hassling Manwe for better reasons didn't make too much sense to me. It pretty much impossible to back up suspicions this early. Maybe someone is trying to draw the seer out of hiding?

I hoped to address everyone who has posted but I'm out of time for now.

I think at least one Faithful was among the earliest posters and I doubt if they are addressing each other much while wearing their daytime disguises.

It is possible they might try to sacrifice one of their own early on as a diversion.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, what an awakening!

I'm saying forward that I have no experience with Were-faithful, not even with Were-wolves as some of you have (being serving under our lord Annatar a long time ago or being hunted by the wolves in Hither lands before poor old king Pharazon made peace with lord Annatar). And the dispute about possible murderers of poor Macalaure already runs - until I was able to collect (I hope at least some) the information posted here, about a hour has passed and I have yet to leave for a moment, but fortunately, I'll be back in little time and then rethink everything. Possibly, something will come to me. But so far now, I want to add my bits to the discussion, just from what popped on me when reading this through. Only from my random thoughts, hopefully if I am completely "out of plate", you'd just ignore this.

I didn't quite catch the point of Mith and Lalaith's dispute about the Gifteds, generally (as someone already said here) I think it is the best for the Gifteds to stay hidden, so there is no concern of distinguishing them - they will try to leak their own bits of information to us, if I understand it correctly, it's the best they can do (without accidentally sacrificing themselves by revealing their identity).

Some peoples' posts seemed strange to me somehow at first, but after reading later on, I think I learned that is some way of "normal behavior" for them.

Mänwe seemed a little bit, let's say, harsh to me, but still this does not prove to me he's a Were-faithful. But if he is not Were-faithful, then I think it's just nonsense to make too much a mess like he did. Only for illustration, this:

Originally Posted by Mänwe

You also seem impatient to meet everyone; I cannot help but think it’s not just for a bit of idle chatter. Seeking the tastiest amongst us? I assure you, your lupine nose would turn at the smell of my quarters. Being stained with the smell of fish, which I would add is not in order to hide my evil musk!

This seems to me like accusing out of nothing. I also might add here that Roa seems ok to me, I didn't spot anything strange on her behavior here.

I'll write more now, but I really have to leave (I am 10 minutes late already, hence, I start understanding the WW players' feelings ). But surely I'll come back again and then re-think everything and hopefully bring things further.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Blast! I knew I'd left it too late. Now I have to read through all these posts before making any proper comments.
If nothing else, the death was... poetic? 'Seven' things an' all that stuff...

Back soon to make proper comments...

[the guy who be short]

I am answered regarding Glirdan, SpM. I also note that Roa did not actually voice much suspicion of him, so I retract the question from her also. But the question remains for durelin: Why were you worried by Glirdan not saying much, but not Kath?

Originally Posted by SpM

I am also slightly concerned at the way that Glirdan appears to have been targeted, by Nogrod in particular, without him actually having said very much.

Bear in mind this from Nogrod:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Speak up people, otherwise we can't nail the baddies... and if it becomes to that, I will be the first to vote for those who do not talk without an acceptable explanation.

A sensible view, and one I fully endorce. Though the above question now goes to Nogrod also: Why pick out Glirdan and avoid mentioning Kath, who also said nothing, but with more words?



For the record, voting now stands at:
Durelin -> Manwe
Rikae -> Manwe
Manwe -> Nogrod
Thinlomien -> Rikae

In conclusion, here is a list of what I feel the following villagers are most likly to be, and why, in no particular order:

Innocent
Nogrod - Dislikes those who are too quiet. Makes sense.
SpM - Makes a lot of sense. His slight accusation of Mith (see below)perked my interest - a very good point I hadn't noticed.

Faithful:
Mithalwen -

But if anyone has a watertight method for distinguishing gifted odd vibe from wolvish odd vibe please share!

This information should obviously not be shared.
Manwe - Too harsh and questioning, doesn't explain his list of potential Faithfuls, secretive and too in-character. Accuses Nogrod for his vocabulary.
Rikae - Her first post was a vote. While I agree with the vote, I would like to know why it was cast so quickly. I, personally, would require time to decide on a vote.

I am also ever so slightly suspicious of the quiet for the very fact of being quiet: Glirdan, Gil-Galad, The Might.


Finally, three things aimed at three people:
1) I would like to hear more from Mithalwen about her early request for information on identifying gifteds. I am most inclined to vote for Mith, for that statement and for being so quiet thereafter.
2) I would like Rikae to explain how she came to vote so rapidly.
3) Gil-Galad, can you explain your hunches? I understand the point of a hunch is to be inexplicable, which doesn't help us, but still.

[the guy who be short]

I'm unhappy with day one banter. Day ones almost always end in the lynching of an innocent for the most spurious evidence; thus far, I have seen nothing much condemning from anybody.

I should mention that there is a prophecy to be fulfilled. Kath is mean, and should be lynched. Well... give me a reason not to, Kathwin.

I will also say that our votes so far are for Manwe and Nogrod, who have both been loud. Other than them, suspicion seems to fall on those that are loud, simply because they have something to say. This can then be analysed and twisted, whether intentionally or not, in all sorts of ways. For this reason, I have always been more inclined to suspect the quiet, who seem to "fly under the radar".

And so I will mention with only mild suspicion (which is more than I have for anybody else) the quiet:
Holbytlass admits to being quiet.
Kath (prophecy!) hasn't said much yet.
Gil-galad has said nothing worth mentioning.
Glirdan has said little (and, on a side-note, said Adieu. Which God, eh? ) However, it interests me that among all the quiet people, people have jumped on Glirdan alone. I wonder why. I doubt it is Faithfuls, for they never seem to have coherent strategies for Day 1, wishing rather to let the ordos confuse themselves. So why have all you people jumped on Glirdan and not any of the others on this list? Roa, SpM, Durelin, this means you.
Lalaith and Mith, other than the early posts, have been very quiet.
Nothing from The Might.

I appreciate we have several hours of Daylight left, so I will not attack those who have said nothing. For all I know, they could come and say something valuable in a few hours. I am therefore most suspicious of those who have spoken without saying anything.

[Holbytlass]

It is quite the canundrum of DAY1's. Day one lynchee is usually a high poster voted for by those who wish to be helpful to the village and only rarely is a baddie caught. Quiet/nontalkers are rarely lynched as it's seen as bad form to lynch someone without giving them a chance to speak.

So at this point, all those who have been highly accused/voted for and those doing the major accusing I find innocent at this time.
namelyManwe Nogrod Lommy Durelin Rikae that's not to say that those who accused hadn't gotten a hit but we just don't know till the deed is done.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

wow there is a lot of people really confusing me. . .

People seem to be very jumpy and are reacting somewhat strongly to small things, normally I would be happy to see such actions as it is good for analyzing. This time however the people who do so are not someone I have played with before and therefor it might just be "paranoia" as Legate puts it.

I do not know what to think about Holby's post she does not say much, mostly it is just random comments, save for her thoughts on Mänwe and the votes he has gained. It just seems very neutral, but I am fearing that the main reason I look at this with suspicion is because not long ago I encountered a "Bad Holby"

Hookbill seems innocent to me and do not understand the fuzz there was made about his post.

[Kath]

I should mention that there is a prophecy to be fulfilled. Kath is mean, and should be lynched. Well... give me a reason not to, Kathwin.

And you shall have one! Go back to that thread, read the next post down and you shall find the following comment, typed by you:

Hehe, Kath, I'd never do that.

So my dear if you go against your word and vote for me on the basis of a prophecy you yourself negated, well, that wouldn't be very innocent looking now would it?

Ah so, what's been going on? Manwe seems to have got himself into quite a bit of bother. Right now I don't think it's anything suspicious. He's a newbie (right?) finding his own place in these games. I for one want to see how he behaves in later days. If it turns out that the four he named really are the Faithful's we may have another Valier on our hands! At any rate, I don't want to see him lynched at present.

Legate looks to be the self-appointed voice of reason. I'm all for making sure people don't take things too personally but with his mediating between Hookbill and Brinniel (something there was no need for) he seems to be trying to set himself up as the calm one. I don't know, I just don't like it.

Hookbill appears to be behaving normally to me. The accusations against him haven't actually been accusations in the sense that people think he's guilty (except possibly from Manwe who keeps repeating it) and he hasn't been overly defensive. His replies were amusing more than offended.

Durelin apparently flourishes without an occupation to fall back on! Perhaps we shouldn't allow her one is future games.

Got to go again. It's good that people have started to talk, we've had a comment from all but one player now is that right? Hopefully they'll have spoken by the time I get back and I'll have to whole village to have a quick look at.

[Mithalwen]

Roa likes lots of talk so she can examine it. There is nothing odd about that per se.

I am going to have a look at the various people who have taken the somewhat flippant sentence of my "stating the obvious" first post so seriously while (wilfully?) ignoring the serious one - since I know I was well intentioned I have to consider that they may not be:

"Given we don't want to force gifteds to out themselves to save their necks or to out those we think may be gifted in order to defend them, we should remember that that gifteds as well as wolves are liable to give out an "odd" vibe and that while in most villages only the wolves know about each other here the hunter and ranger know about each other. But if anyone has a watertight method for distinguishing gifted odd vibe from wolvish odd vibe please share!"

With nothing to comment on I just wanted to remind the village of the possible dynamics. I can't be certain whether someone seems odd becasue they are a wolf trying to fly under the radar or, say, a ranger who is trying to second guess the wolves as well as catch them but if someone seems "odd" then I do think it is worth reviewing them with all possibilities in mind before you start a bandwaggon. I am not saying don't go after those who you find suspicious.

I hope that is clear...

And if rhetorical means what I think it means - ie not expecting an answer - yes it was.......

[Nogrod]

I have been thinking about Mr. Spam and the more I do it the more confused I get.

It looks like he is grasping at every straw he can twist. And it looks pretty odd.

First he goes on saying that myself and Roa are berating the quieter ones when all I had said about the issue is practically this here:

#19Speak up people, otherwise we can't nail the baddies... and if it becomes to that, I will be the first to vote for those who do not talk without an acceptable explanation.

When he comes back 12 hours later he sticks with his original and obviously faulty idea that:

Originally Posted by SPaM

#58While I am keen for people to speak as much as possible, I am content to give them more than a few hours to do so. You, on the other hand, appeared to be rather cheesed off that most of the village had not spoken in the early hours.

Then he goes on adding that remarkable suspicion that Kath and I are up to no good as we had voiced some optimism because of the basic setting of the game.

Originally Posted by SPaM

It’s possible that one or both may be trying to lull us into a false sense of security.

I mean what is this? How does this relate to anything? How do people act in a state of "false security" and what follows from that? Sorry but I just don't get this. If on the other hand SPaM is only trying to come up with anything someone might bite, then it would be more understandable.

Anyhow he then makes the next points

What does concern me, however, is that there appear to have been a number who have championed him (Mänwe) as a primary candidate for lynching, and I do wonder whether this might have resulted from a perception by one or more of the Faithful that his style might make him a possible Day 1 lynch.
---------------
I wonder whether he (Glirdy) too may have been targeted as a potential easy Day 1 lynch.

So long as the lynch is not bent towards one of them it's pretty much the same to the were-faithfuls who is lynched. Why risk making an open campaign? But only if there is something like a big fish to be lynched.

And then there was this stuff about me targeting Glirdy especially which I think I already showed was nonsense.

So what to make of this? Is he just in a hurry and careless and just forgets what has actually been said? But he manages to remember things wrongly always towards the same direction...

If there ever was anyone trying to frame someone else, this might meet the criteria?

EDIT: X'd with a host of posts.

[Rikae]

Durelin -Seems to be engaging with all the issues that are brought up and sincerely trying to be helpful. Feels innocent.
Glirdan – Entirely confusing and little content. Can't get any impression of him at all – might be a good idea to eliminate him as an “unknown quantity” soon.

Gil-Galad – Basically, same assessment as Glirdan.
Kath – Advised me not to start conversations as a wolf in the last game – something she's been doing now. She seems not to be trying quite as hard, or playing as carefully, as she does when a wolf – but it's subtle enough I doubt it's a deliberate trick.
Kitanna – Safe – claims speechlessness, not really with much apparent reason – points out Glirdan's Glirdanishness. Seems very to be flying under the radar.
Lalaith – First post seems relaxed, in an innocentish way, and pointing out the foolishness of drawing attention to gifteds also strikes me as sincere.
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mänwe – Attention drawing in a way that, in retrospect, seems like the sort of innocent that looks suspcious on a day one. However, the comment about worthless villagers disturbs me...but he kind of reminds me of an innocent Morm.
Mithalwen – Posting first tends to look innocent – as I'm sure “Faithfulwen” would be aware.

Initially pointing out that gifteds can look suspicious could easily be an attempt to make suspicious looking faithfuls seem like possible gifteds, plus, she mentions the cobbler prominently on a separate line – a technique I've used myself, as a wolf, to get the cobbler's attention.
Rune Son of Bjarne – Always seems the same to me, guilty or innocent. Isn't particularly standing out.
The Saucepan Man – Starts off telling everyone to speak, stating simple, safe, obvious things. Seems keen to lynch Roa, which is NOT in the village's interests, as I said.






Suspicious:

Mithalwen

TSM

Kitanna




Moderate:

Glirdan

Manwe

Rune

Gil







Not suspicious:

Kath

Lalaith

Duralin




I have to go - I'll look at the rest when I get back.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mithalwen – Posting first tends to look innocent – as I'm sure “Faithfulwen” would be aware.

.

LOL I find quite the reverse - in my first games the first posters turned out to be wolves which was the reason I nearly just went home to bed on Sunday night. However because I believe you should participate as much as you can and I knew I would be limited, I started things off. If I were a wolf I would have kept quiet and not drawn attention to myself . However as an ordo, I believe the more discussion the better. I generated discussion far more than by some "in char RPG"psot customary for early posts that may be amusing but are seldom enlightening......

And I am not a wolf so please do not play around with my name. I really find it annoying when people do that....

[Thinlómien]

I can't see how Lalaith is suspicious. I think she sounds very innocent and reasonable and I don't think she's making an issue about Mith's comment. I don't see Mith as particularly suspicious either. I think their discussion about gifteds is one most probably between two innocents. Of course you can't be sure of anyone's innocence at this phase, but these two ladies don't ring my alarms right now.

Originally Posted by Kath

...the Hunter and Ranger know each other and so we will be spared the hell that is two Gifted's going after each other without realising it!

You've obviously forgotten the disastrous possibility of a hunter (or a ranger) being against the seer.... *coughyouandDiamondkilledmormonce* Anyway, I think the situation is pretty equal; there is four (instead of the normal three) baddies and they have a helper, but in other hand, there's more ordos than normal and the faithfuls have only one kill per night, as Nogrod noted. (As a sidenote, I think that comment of his was a bit weird... I mean, it was kind of Noggie-like silent criticism about his side being outnumbered...)

I've been often persuaded (either by myself or my fellow villagers) to lynch an innocent Glirdy, since he's acting in an odd way, so I'll be a bit more careful this time. Whether he's innocent or guilty, he's weird. Keeping that in mind, I have nothing against him... yet. (No this does not mean I think we should not pay attention to him or not to try to analyse him, this just means that we should keep in mind that he often tends to seem very suspicious even when he's innocent.) I think some people are making a bit too big fuss about a first post...

Originally Posted by Nog

What bothers me is that I tend to agree with Roa here (as we should be the cat and the dog - which one of us is what is an open question)...

Dog = wolf and I've not forgotten about Valier's werecats game, so what about lynching these two? Then we'd be done with 50% of the Faithfuls.

Originally Posted by Sauce

...it does seem to me that Roa and Nogrod are being unduly harsh on those who have not had an opportunity to speak so far.

It is but little over three hours since Mac's body was discovered, and yet Roa and Nogrod are behaving as though it is a crime not to have posted yet. I agree that we want everyone to speak, but I hardly think it incriminating that there are a fair few who have not been able to do so thus far.

I disagree with you here. They've talked about silent posters, but I don't see the, as "behaving as though it is a crime not to have posted yet". I think they're their normal "speak up people"-selves. I can assure you they're far worse when they're really harsh on silent people...

Mänwe's totally weird, but not necessarily in a bad way. He's had some good points.

Rikae's quick vote on Mänwe is quite weird. I mean, she just comes, makes a few points, votes and leaves. Of course she might be in a hurry, but why didn't she say that. She might have tried to lay pressure on Mänwe to get him jumpy to see if he's a wolf or not, but I'm not too sure about that option. After all, there had been some pressure on him already. If she wanted to pressure test someone, why had she to choose Mänwe? Speaking of which I think his calmness speaks for his innocence.

Pretty much everyone seems their normal selves and I have hardly any suspicions. I'll reread the thread again next, and see if I can come up with anything more intelligent and original than this first-impression post...

edit: xed with Legate and Hookbill