Gandalf Captured!? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 02-10-2007, 04:28 AM

How do you suppose Gandalf managed to get into the dungeon and speak with Thráin? Were there no guards?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-10-2007, 02:14 PM

I suppose right down there there weren't any guards. Cf. Bilbo and Thorin in Thranduil's halls, something like that. Gandalf says that Sauron took the Ring and didn't care anymore (he even didn't take the map and key of Erebor - read the UT, he speaks very much of it there).

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 02-10-2007, 03:02 PM

That is another point I found quite bizarre: here Sauron finds the Dwarf who has one of his rings, and he doesn't even search him fully. He could have had dozens of other rings for all he knew!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-10-2007, 03:12 PM

Well, no, I suppose Sauron saw he has one ring, three handkerchiefs, one map, seven shovels, a key, and four thousand thirty-five golden pieces in his pockets. He took the ring and then just threw him to the dungeon. He didn't care of the rest.

The 1,000 Reader · 02-10-2007, 04:06 PM

Even though the key would make an alliance with the dragon much easier, as in getting to see the dragon?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-11-2007, 02:35 AM

The key was not labeled "this is a key to Erebor" and Sauron probably didn't bother to look at the map, since it showed the Lonely Mountain, which he knew. Maybe in the lust for the Ring he didn't even look at it. And if Sauron wanted to ally with Smaug, he'd probably send some of his classic Horsemen In The Night through the front gate. It does look suspicious if you sneak through the back entrance to a person (or Dragon) you want to make a fair deal with.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 02-11-2007, 05:59 AM

Sauron is meant to be the big, scary Dark Lord. Yet he captures a Dwarf who has one of his rings of power, and doesn't even bother to strip him of everything he has, slay him, or keep a watch on him. That's dodgy management; that's poor decision-making if you ask me.

Related point: could Sauron not sense that Gandalf was in Dol Guldur? I'm presuming Sauron was there at all times. If Sauron was hiding behind the curtains in Rivendell I'm sure Gandalf or Elrond would have felt something.

02-10-2007, 04:28 AM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	How do you suppose Gandalf managed to get into the dungeon and speak with Thráin? Were there no guards? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

02-10-2007, 02:14 PM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	I suppose right down there there weren't any guards. Cf. Bilbo and Thorin in Thranduil's halls, something like that. Gandalf says that Sauron took the Ring and didn't care anymore (he even didn't take the map and key of Erebor - read the UT, he speaks very much of it there). __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-10-2007, 03:02 PM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	That is another point I found quite bizarre: here Sauron finds the Dwarf who has one of his rings, and he doesn't even search him fully. He could have had dozens of other rings for all he knew! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

02-10-2007, 03:12 PM	#4
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, no, I suppose Sauron saw he has one ring, three handkerchiefs, one map, seven shovels, a key, and four thousand thirty-five golden pieces in his pockets. He took the ring and then just threw him to the dungeon. He didn't care of the rest. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-10-2007, 04:06 PM	#5
The 1,000 Reader Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps. Posts: 527	Even though the key would make an alliance with the dragon much easier, as in getting to see the dragon? __________________ "And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that." -A History of Villains

02-11-2007, 02:35 AM	#6
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	The key was not labeled "this is a key to Erebor" and Sauron probably didn't bother to look at the map, since it showed the Lonely Mountain, which he knew. Maybe in the lust for the Ring he didn't even look at it. And if Sauron wanted to ally with Smaug, he'd probably send some of his classic Horsemen In The Night through the front gate. It does look suspicious if you sneak through the back entrance to a person (or Dragon) you want to make a fair deal with. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-11-2007, 05:59 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Sauron is meant to be the big, scary Dark Lord. Yet he captures a Dwarf who has one of his rings of power, and doesn't even bother to strip him of everything he has, slay him, or keep a watch on him. That's dodgy management; that's poor decision-making if you ask me. Related point: could Sauron not sense that Gandalf was in Dol Guldur? I'm presuming Sauron was there at all times. If Sauron was hiding behind the curtains in Rivendell I'm sure Gandalf or Elrond would have felt something. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

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