The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Child of the 7th Age]

I usually prefer to "go with the flow" and let characters respond spontaneously. But the meeting with the orcs is going to take some planning. My main concern is making it believable that these two groups might actually consider grudging cooperation. This is obviously not something Tolkien explored in his stories other than his brief comment in HoMe about the possibility of "mercy".

Durelin and I exchanged pms and came up with the following ideas. None of this is written in stone. Additional ideas/comments are welcome, especially since some of this action "makes assumptions" about your characters that may or may not be right. If you're not comfortable with something in this post or have another idea, please speak out....

First, it's preferable that any action with orcs takes place in the slavers' camp rather than at the original campsite where the battle occurred and where the injured are now recuperating. I can definitely see how an advance party of 12-15 good guys could ride over to the slavers’ camp intending to gather supplies; discover a small group of drunk, snoring orcs; and then manage to overpower them. But I don't think we have the manpower to clamp these orcs in chains and drag them off against their will back to our original camp. That means we have two choices: kill the orcs on the spot (not good for our storyline) or imprison them temporarily in the slavers’ camp until the others arrive and we make a decision.

Logistically speaking, it would be very possible to imprison the orcs temporarily. The slavers’ camp has pens, corrals, pits, manacles, and chains….very convenient for our guests. We could use those facilities and implements to keep the orcs in check till the rest of our group arrives. That could be the next day, or if we wanted, even a later day by use of a time condense post. Meanwhile, those left behind at the original campsite could use the time to recuperate from injuries, bury or more likely burn the dead, tend to the wounded.

We had an earlier discussion about numbers of male and female orcs, but never reached a firm decision. Overall there are 15 orcs. Could we go with 10 males (Makdush, Ishkur, Gwerr, Grask and 6 NPC) and 5 females (Zagra, Mazhg, Ungolt and 2 NPC) ? One male (Grask) and one female (NPC) would be under age. That means the fellowship will have to contend with 9 sleeping/drunk adult male warriors (3 uruks?, 6 regular orcs?) I am guessing that the females and Grask will not be totally drunk and will be able to hide and evade the intial round-up and imprisonment by the good guys….but that will be up to you.

I believe there are 46 living ex-slaves plus 7 fellowship members. Of the ex-slaves, I would guess that 26 are men and women who would normally fight; 20 are children and females who do not usually fight. Another 6 members of the fellowship are combattants; Azhar is not. So overall we have 53 good guys: 32 fighters and 21 non-fighters. That’s 32 against 10 fierce orc warriors… plus some angry female orcs as well! This sounds about right for the two groups to keep each other in check, with neither having the clear upperhand. Of course right now, the number of good guys is lower because so many are injured. Still, we probably have 20 or so capable of fighting.

A possible plot line….

1. 12-15 relatively able bodied fighters ride over to the slavers’ camp at dawn to check on supplies. There is a wagon in the slavers’ camp which they intend to use for transporting the supplies.

2. When this party arrives, they discover 9 drunk/snoring male orcs….. Women and children are nowhere to be seen????

I can see one of our good guys who hates orcs come into camp first and stumble upon a sleeping victim. He/she will draw sword and prepare to execute. Lindir, who nominally heads the party, will stop him. (Don’t suppose everyone will be thrilled with that!) Lindir will order the males chained and thrown into the underground pit while we consider our options.

3. Since Lindir has no idea whether there are more orcs lurking about, he feels it’s essential that everyone unite in a single camp as soon as possible. He sends one or two messengers back to camp along with the wagon and tells the entire group to prepare to leave the next morning (?) after a day’s rest. Those in camp will presumably be thrilled to hear this news. When the actual trip comes the next morning, the sick will be transported in the slavers’ wagon and on sledges. We can do this in a narrative post rather than get too bogged down.

The next day everyone arrives in the slavers' camp, and the debate begins.

I see 3 options: kill the orcs immediately, leave them chained at the bottom of the pit (which Lindir sees as equivalent to a sentence of death) or leave them free to go their own way. Surely, no one initially considered the possibility of cooperation.

Aiwendil, who has been delayed out in the wilds (I'll think of something!) comes stumbling into the meeting late…. The camp is already voting and the judgment is death. (I think this is in keeping with what people said earlier on this thread, but let me know if I am wrong.)

4. A few slaves step forward to execute the order. At this point something happens . This is something the orcs will need to plan but somehow, someway, one of the orcs needs to make a plea for mercy….

5. I am planning on having Aiwendil step forward and explain what he has seen out on the plain in very clear terms. To put it bluntly, neither group will survive on the plains of Gorgoroth unless they cooperate against the overwhelming threat of the “olog-hai”.

The group hopefully reconsiders. Orcs and good guys agree to march in proximity, if not exactly side by side....

Will this work? Ex-slaves and fellowship….please let me know if you’ll be waiting behind in camp or going with the advance party to the slavers’ camp. Orcs….please let me know if your character is going to be imprisoned or out hiding in the bushes (or doing something else for that matter.). Everyone is welcome to respond on this thread or send a pm if you have something special up your sleeve.

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Speaking of sleeves.... Firefoot, check your pm's.
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P.S. Would anyone like to be the character who first stumbles on a sleeping orc and draws out a sword to slay him?

[Regin Hardhammer]

Everyone,

The outline by Child and Durelin sounds fine to me. The orcs are already starting to plan what our response will be.

I do have one minor problem. I leave tomorrow for a three-day conference in Washington DC. That means I won't be able to post till late Monday or Tuesday. I'm not sure how fast things are going to play out so I don't know if my absence will be a problem.

Just in case....

Nogrod If Ishkur gets imprisoned while I am gone, could you carry him to prison along with Gwerr?

And Child this is to confirm my earlier pm.... Feel free to have Ishkur respond positively to the news that Makdush will bring.

See everyone later.

- Regin

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Two thoughts come to mind, Child. Firstly, I have always assumed that orcs were quite at home in pits and holes. But perhaps chaining them together will keep them out of mischief...or maybe they will get into worse mischief underground!

Secondly, would the average non-orc even be able to tell a female from a male orc? If so, perhaps the plea might be from a female who's not keen on being locked up with the males!

As for Carl, he is not running at 100%, but I can see him returning to the slavers' camp in order to keep his mind off things.

[Nogrod]

Well...

Basically it looks good.

But I'm a bit hesitant with this easy catch of all the orcs and am trying to bring together the puzzle left to me by Regin with his post here and his PM to me...

I know you others haven't played the orcs very much (except Undomë who's characters are now "safe" as it has been agreed that they will not drink too much and may get away) and from the viewpoint of the ex-slaves / the FS the orcs are mainly a challenge on your route.

But after playing the orc-guys pretty extensively with Regin I think we both have started to care for our characters so as to wish them to be able to make a difference as any character could - or at least not be such a prewritten fools.

And that I think would also enhance the actual playing, giving us all new ways to look at things and new situations to react to?

I agree that we should end up with a settlement - how fragile it might be - but just rounding up all the orcs doesn't sound like a way either Ishkur or Gwerr would allow it to go. They've been masterminding a few things already and would take care not to get drunk enough anyway as their future gold is at stake (even if they wouldn't be ready for any humans to appear, but just because of the Uruks they would be on alarm all the time). And they're over two thousand year old soldiers... they're no novices. Surely they would have something in their sleeve for any unforeseen situations?

If you haven't read their fortunes this far, they are in the slaver-captain's tent with all his treasure nicely packed into small pouches and laden to a horse that is also inside the tent. If they heard something alarming they would probably mount and ride away together coming back to see what's going on after they feel it's safer... That's just a preliminary thought, though.

I don't see this compromising the initial plan though. The discussions - as the rest of the ex-slaves / Fs would come to the camp - might just receive a few other unexpected guests with Aiwendil...

[Nogrod]

Thinking out aloud of the "forward party"...

We probably should pick there people who have time to post somewhat regularly and taking in characters who are relatively sound.

That means fex. that Hadith will not join them (as he wasn't able to take part in the closing action of the fight). But then again I would much like to warm up Dury's earlier idea of making Beloan an actual minor character, shared between Dury and me (others are welcome to use him for my part still even if we decide to make him "a character"). We could come up with a bio for him on the grounds of what Dury offered.

Then Beloan should be one of those in the advance party. And this giant-guy Qat possibly too as he's barely scratched?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Hilde

Secondly, would the average non-orc even be able to tell a female from a male orc? If so, perhaps the plea might be from a female who's not keen on being locked up with the males!

Well, I think we're going to go with the idea that Orcs reproduce in the same way as humans and Elves, so we can assume then that female Orcs have mammary glands. While that's certainly not always a give away, I imagine their voices are a little more...matronly? Perhaps their facial features are a little softer? And I imagine their a little lighter in build, though probably not by much.

I think confusion regarding this will definitely happen, though, when the slaves and fellowship first see them. I'd say we can assume that they'll see something different, though, and someone will suggest that they're...*gasp* female? I'm guessing the Orc-women might have something to say about the uncertainty there...

That's just me making assumptions. Does that sound at all plausible?

Originally Posted by Hilde

Firstly, I have always assumed that orcs were quite at home in pits and holes. But perhaps chaining them together will keep them out of mischief...or maybe they will get into worse mischief underground!

Good point...perhaps that should be worked in. (Don't we have enough going on? Yeah, yeah, probably...) Or, here's my attempt to explain it away: Well, the orcs are going to be found completely "wasted" at first, to put it bluntly. And from then on...well, I imagine they'll be closely guarded. And considering we've got people who have person grudges against Orcs, there are some that aren't going to hesitate to kill them on the spot if they make a move, which will be made clear, I'm sure, in various ways.

Wow, the Orc-human/elf/dwarf/hobbit relations are starting off really rough...

Nogrod -

I understand your concern with your character's actions and situation being determined. Child and I have been working with the assumption that all the Orc men in particular have been drinking quite a bit, thinking they can relax because everyone's dead and surely having something to celebrate because all the stuff in the camp is theirs (and we thought that this had been agreed upon, sorry we were mistaken). By the time the slaves and fellowship there, we guessed they'd all pretty much be out. Dragging passed out drunks into a pit is just rounding them up.

If you'd prefer a couple exceptions for you and Regin's character, I don't see a problem with having additional unexpected guests - two male orcs prepared to defend the females, children, and male orcs in the pit could only encourage the slaves and fellowship to decide that killing them was not the best idea. Not only do the have Aiwendil's warning, but then they'd also have two angry male orcs and some female orcs who are probably nearly just as fierce to deal with, and while their victory is simply assured by numbers, they really don't want any death, and certainly not more after their battle.

So, to put it simply, in my opinion, it is up to you...I don't think Child will have a problem adjusting things (that's why she posted the plans), but I will not speak for her.

And I agree, Nogrod, that Beloan should be one of the advance party. I actually was thinking of having him kind of initiate it by asking those who have seen the slaver camp where it is and if they have any idea how much supplies there might be...and get the ball rolling on a group to go scope it out and pick up some things. Lindir might be the one to really do that, though. Joint effort?

I hope that helps everyone at least an itty bit, and I'm sorry if I missed anything...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Dury

I understand your concern with your character's actions and situation being determined. Child and I have been working with the assumption that all the Orc men in particular have been drinking quite a bit, thinking they can relax because everyone's dead and surely having something to celebrate because all the stuff in the camp is theirs (and we thought that this had been agreed upon, sorry we were mistaken). By the time the slaves and fellowship there, we guessed they'd all pretty much be out. Dragging passed out drunks into a pit is just rounding them up.

Basically I agree with the situation you have worked with - as I think I have myself referred to a camp full of drunken orcs too... But I think the two veterans would know better than that - and it seems that for some reason (possibly some hitherto-unknown special trait of female orcs) the women are also taking it easier.

But that kind of makes it also a bit believable, I think. Count out Ishkur and Gwerr, the females and the underaged, and the advance party will meet with 7 orcs who can't even walk straight. With those they can deal with easily and have their moral problems whether to just kill them or let them live imprisoned.

That of course if Makdush will also be so stupid as to drink himself so passionately off the consciousness... That could indeed be one possibility to try and better the relations between Ishkur/Gwerr vs. Makdush, if he were to join the two after the others are taken as prisoners? (and there would be only six drunken orcs lying on the ground as the party comes in) Looking this from Gwerr's point of view, he would just detest the possibility , but from the overall narration's viewpoint it might be something we should consider?

Beloan should be one of the advance party. I actually was thinking of having him kind of initiate it by asking those who have seen the slaver camp where it is and if they have any idea how much supplies there might be...and get the ball rolling on a group to go scope it out and pick up some things. Lindir might be the one to really do that, though. Joint effort?

Let's work Beloan out then. I will look at your proposed bio-stuff tomorrow (RL) and will send you my suggestions.

But feel free to post with Beloan initiating the search-party. I think we have both posted quite a lot for him so that he could be an actual joint-character. What say you?