Failure and Punishment

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Raynor

He was born in 2968 and, IIRC, his mother died in 2980, which would make him 12 years old at that time.

Thanks, Raynor.
Wow, twelve. That does make a huge difference on his bereavement psychology(Bb). It may not be a direct cause of his loner-ness, certainly a factor because it sets him apart. And that would definitely be a sobering experience the death of ones parents in an already taboo situation (being on the water) with some suspicions of murder (one pushed the other in).
Maybe he did feel like (at that age) there would be more to his life than that of hobbits in general. Of course, there's Bilbo and Gandalf feeding into him how special he is so by the time the council comes around he does feel like he could and should be the one to take it. I don't mean that in a cocky sort of way but an affirmation sort of way.


Would agnostic be more appropriate describing the hobbits in general than atheist?

Originally Posted by Raynor

Tolkien was a religious person, he intended his work to reflect his principles and convictions - I don't see how he can achieve that by portraying an atheist world with atheist heroes.

In the context that I think you mean, the 'principles and convictions' being his Catholicism I thought Tolkien didn't want that-to be overtly Catholic in his story. Otherwise, it implies that if a person doesn't believe in a god, a catholic god then that person doesn't have principles or convictions and fictional characters can't be written with them.


I don't see Frodo as being punished by Eru. To be punished by a deity would take an act by that deity, all his suffering is in consequence of his behavior, decisions and things beyond his control that he experienced-punished in the way Lush suggests because of the ordeal being punishing in nature.

Originally Posted by Lush

Does he (Sam) endure less "damage" because he is ultimately more resilient? Or is it because he bears less responsibility (i.e., he's not carrying the Ring all this time)?

The biggest factor to me being the difference is that their experiences were different. Sam was there the whole time but as stated he bears less responsibility and didn't make decisions that were never his to make (putting ring on at Weathertop) and some just luck-Shelob could've stung him instead of Frodo.