LotR1-FotR-Seq08

[doug*platypus]

It seems I was a bit, hoom, well, hasty in my earlier post when decrying the power that the filmmakers gave to Arwen, letting her revoke her immortality and pass a gift on to Frodo:

doug*platypus

So what does Arwen do? Gives up her immortality then and there, so that she can save Frodo's life! Is she allowed to do this? Even Lúthien had to plead her case to Mandos.

Having just finished a re-read of the book, I spied the line in Many Partings which no doubt inspired PJ and co to do as they did:

The Return of the King

"But in my stead you shall go, Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it."

It still is a bit of a surprise to me that Arwen can make this choice for Frodo, but I am glad that she can! And hey, it's canonical. So I guess for afternoon tea I'll be serving up a steaming dish of my own words. Mmm... words...

[mark12_30]

Luthien had to ask for the choice, but she wasn't half-elven. Her descendants were half-elven; and they were GIVEN the choice. Arwen always knew she would have to choose. So did Elladan and Elrohir. Arwen's choice left a spot open on the ship into the West; but notice that Bilbo and (eventually) Sam also went. The letters say that Gandalf probably also had something to do with it, and perhaps Galadriel (if I remember correctly.) See footnote (on page 327) to letter 246.

Some folks think that Shadowfax went West too.

[alatar]

Whether Arwen could give away her boat ticket or not, in Tolkien's world, in PJ's world it seems that she can. However, I can see where it could be confusing, as, at the Fords, Warrior Princess Arwen seems to be giving away her mortality ("grace") to Frodo.

Originally Posted by The Script

"What grace is given me, let it pass to him. Let him be spared. Save him."

Later, when he's recovered and on his way to more fun adventures, she decides to 'take it back' as she goes along with the other elves in their slow walk to the Havens. Then, after having a vision of children to come, she yet again turns her back on the West and so runs back to Elrond (and Aragorn eventually), leaving her place in the West 'available.' isn't it said, never ask an elf for directions?

What an appropriate time to be discussing Frodo sitting in the AmanAir terminal on standby...

[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by alatar

Whether Arwen could give away her boat ticket or not, in Tolkien's world, in PJ's world it seems that she can. However, I can see where it could be confusing, as, at the Fords, Warrior Princess Arwen seems to be giving away her mortality ("grace") to Frodo.



Later, when he's recovered and on his way to more fun adventures, she decides to 'take it back' as she goes along with the other elves in their slow walk to the Havens. Then, after having a vision of children to come, she yet again turns her back on the West and so runs back to Elrond (and Aragorn eventually), leaving her place in the West 'available.' isn't it said, never ask an elf for directions?

What an appropriate time to be discussing Frodo sitting in the AmanAir terminal on standby...

I never really got the impression that she was giving her place on the ship to Frodo when he collapsed at the Ford, but that she was just simply wishing for the good fortune (grace) to help Frodo survive too, as it had helped her.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

I never really got the impression that she was giving her place on the ship to Frodo when he collapsed at the Ford, but that she was just simply wishing for the good fortune (grace) to help Frodo survive too, as it had helped her.

I would agree with that, and would note that "non-book readers" would not have received that impression either, as the concept of Elves going West had hardly been touched on at that point in the film, and Arwen's choice had not been explained at all.