Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXVI - Úcenite Valto

[The Saucepan Man]

I do not recommend lynching Esty today. Her "Werewolf in the style of BD forums/for a/forumdirrim/forum-tee-diddle-dum" was far too amusing to let her go just yet.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Fair enough, you don't want the wolves to discover your plans, but I'm getting pretty confused by all this secrecy.

Me too. I have no idea what the phantom is on about most of the time. I’m mainly just humouring him.

And yet ...

Originally Posted by Esty

For some strange reason I can't define, I still trust the phantom. If he really is a WW, he's a good one!

If he were a Wolf, he would undoubtedly be a good one, and this game in particular would be a dream for him. However, I am increasingly of the view that he is not a Wolf. I still have this residual fear that I am being taken for a fool in this matter, but I’m going to go with my instinct on this one. For now, at least.

Originally Posted by Noggie

I know you do this ploy-stuff when you're innocent but that wouldn't hinder you for doing them as a baddie too.

That is undoubtedly true, but I can (and did) see the sense in what he was trying to do. I didn't catch on to his "strategy is useless and a Wolfish win will be based on pure luck alone" ploy exactly, but I certainly recognised it as an attempt to elicit a reaction. There may well be something in Roa's reaction to it. That said, her reaction was pretty typical for her, whether guilty or innocent. Worth bearing in mind, though.

Originally Posted by Mith

I am very confused but one thing I am certain of is that Nogrod has been far too quiet here while being relatively active in another place

I suspect that if Noggie were a Wolf, he would have been much more active here.

Originally Posted by Elempi

Eomer has been rather quiet and rather disengaging, and his posts nonchalant and disarming. I don't trust that in him.

Quite the most sensible thing that you have said all game. I don’t trust him either.

Eomer’s analysis of morm’s death and his implication thereby of Kath does make some kind of sense. But, since morm was such an obvious Wolf-kill, I suspect he may be reading too much into it, quite possibly deliberately so. And now Ang tells us that it was prompted by his "honey trap". Hmm, I rather think that Eomer’s idea (whether genuine or false) had been simmering rather longer than you allow for it, Ang. That said, the fact that he put forward this rather unnecessarily elaborate theory does further arouse my suspicions of him. Overly elaborate theories always arouse my suspicions of those who put them forward.

Which brings me to Elempi ...

Originally Posted by Kath

lmp and Sauce and the spat between them are causing me some worry.

Well, it’s not really a spat. I find him suspicious and he finds it tiresome that I should find him suspicious as it is so passé. I find it rather tiresome too, in fact, but suspicions are stubborn blighters once aroused.

Originally Posted by Mith

Yes but we can't assume that it is the "two innocents tearing each other apart scenario" can we...

It wouldn’t surpise me. I am a veteran of such futile struggles. And yet …

Originally Posted by Ang

If I have one major worry, it is that an innocent LMP should be attacking Sauce more vehemently...

That worries me too.

Originally Posted by Elempi

SPM & the phantom, please be so kind as to defend yourselves.

My dear Elempi, your theory is perfectly plausible. Except for one thing. If the phantom and I were both Wolves, and had identified each other as such, then there is no way that either one of us would wish to see the other outlast him, bragging rights or no bragging rights.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Don't you see? I came out in support of the "WWs in competition" theory in an effort to get the WWs to gun for each other. I didn't actually believe it for a second. If I myself was a WW NO WAY would I gun for my brother/sister.

As I said, I cannot speak for sure about SPM's intentions, but if you look back at post #182, it makes my innocent intentions clear.

Well, I can speak for my intentions. My original idea about the Wolves being in competition was genuine, as I did believe that to be the case at the time. I still do, to an extent, given what we have been told since. But I did also have the intention of trying to get the Wolves at each other’s throats, since that could only be to the village’s advantage.

The fact that the phantom picked up on this and supported it, even though he did not fully agree with it himself, only reinforces my view of his likely innocence.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But now that you've spoken up, the ploy is, without a doubt, worthless.

Not as far as I am concerned. I still firmly believe that both of the Wolves wish to win this thing as the surviving Wolf (and, if they do not, they should). As long as the other Wolf is around, that doubles their chances of being killed (by night as well as by day) and potentially interferes with their choice of nightly kill.

I am rather inclined to view that finely wrought but (ultimately) implausible and potentially damaging theory of yours as a further sign in your guilt, Elempi.

Any more ploys I should be looking out for, phantom, or are you all ployed out for now?

[Nogrod]

I have no time to make an all around -scan here so I'll stick to those still alive and who received no votes on Day1 (by my "the careful wolf on Day1" suspicion)

Eomer of the Rohirrim
Estelyn Telcontar
Kath
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Roa_Aoife

On the following I will not include any judgements of myself as that is the task of you others.

On Day1 / basic points
Of these the safest game was played to my eye by Eomer, Estelyn and Kath. To my opinion they would make excellent Fea-choises for a wolf too – as would many others, that admitted.

Mith’s vote for Bb was a risky one, maybe too risky for a wolf (even if it didn’t result in any actual votes in the end). I will exclude her from this notion onwards.

Roa played somewhat as she normally does. That might be interpreted “safe” in a way, but she at least threw her neck in and got involved. And tp: Roa is a firm believer in reason and arguments, just like you seem to be – and as I am. Unfortunately we are put in the test in this game as the room has been narrowed quite considerably.

If we add to this the voting, I think that the wolves would not like to spread the vote in the last moments / would be inclined to cast early votes. But basically, if anyone else than them is gaining votes a wolf would like to add gathering votes to that one / those ones. The wolf acts alone now and the situation differs a lot from a normal game: all the usual “bandwaggoning principles” don’t hold here. It’s harder for us to read and thence easier for the wolves to join as they do not need to care about any connections as there are no (we can’t speculate whether X knew what was the status of Y as no one here knows but her/himself and if the lynching of another wolf might be a positive thing for the other - so everything goes for the wolves as long as it's not themselves).

So of those possibly not-notified, it can be gathered:
Eomer gave an easy and early vote for lmp.
Kath went to give tp his third vote, explanation: random but biased.
Estelyn brought Boro up to two “based on several next-to-nothings”.
Roa spread the vote giving Di her first for over-defenciveness.

Paying heed to my theory about the wolves preferred voting style, that would make Eomer, Kath and Estelyn look the most suspicious ones.

On Day2
Eomer has mostly sticked with making arguments that frame himself, but also made a reasoned list of people based on a principle, having a row of sorts - pretty tongue in cheek for his part - with Ang.
Kath has been quiet and defended her quietness with the reason that she will only gear up on Day3-4. Very convenient for a wolf if we should all wait.
Estelyn: “Perhaps she (Fea) thought that (I, Estelyn) would make me less calculable for the strategic experts...” after that lots of fun.
Roa continued with typical Roaishness. As on Day one. No clear read-outs there. She would act the same anyhow. I'm the last one to come forwards with open trust on her but really that does not ring any alarm-bells with me either. And about what both tp and Spm have been suggesting, she might be strict with her honour but in any case would defend logical argumentation and grounded votes over anything even suggesting randomness, and do it fiercely. Trust me, I've played with her a several times.

Eomer made again an early vote (decent guy, goes to bed early...) for Kath in concerto with his mirror-theory about Morm's death.
Esty brought Di to two.

To conclude:
- Roa I see as playing herself. That is both a good sign and a worrying sign. You just don't know about her. Not my vote toDay, anyway.
- Esty, if played only in one game so far, I will truly look at her with not a lynch in mind toDay, even though I must agree with the few that she would make a first-class Fea-pick and her actions might be easily seen as a careful wolf's deeds.
- Eomer has been a bit weird but then again he has been making some actual points and sticked with them toDay. Nevertheless much more tame and easy that I would have expected. Self-condemning moves might also be pure Eomer(-wolf).
- Kath has been so reserved. As she so often is in the beginning of the game. But I have seen her conquer with that style before, just from too near...

I will go for

++ Kath

She has a self-defending armour of not being of any use in the first Days. And she seems to stick with it. It might be honest, but I have seen her use it to her advantage too. It is no good if some people are let to live Day after Day just because they will be possible assets later - thence giving them peace over the maddness of the first Days also when they are baddies. Also her vote on Day1 followed the line I thought the wolves might wish to do.

tp, I know your point about just stating the fact (it might be or not) truly applies here too (as with yourself). But with this little to go for with anyone in these time-limits I would rather not see a sneaky wolf under radar.

I'm deeply conscious that I'm also giving a second vote to someone toDay... But that is the best I can come up with at this moment. I need to sleep now.

[Kath]

Nogrod, I don't dare to proclaim that I will become useful in later Days, just that I'm more likely to be helpful then.

I must say I do like lmp's theory that the phantom and Sauce are our two wolves. I can quite see Fea coming up with that little scenario, confident that both of them can talk their way out of anything and gaining a huge amount of amusement as they do just that.

I think I'm having a lazy day, more inclined to go with the thoughts of others than my own. Still, there is that niggling feeling that phantom is innocent. So, with apologies for my inability to take this seriously right now and a half-hearted promise to do better in future:

++ESTY

For spamming the thread.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Mith

Roa - well we all know that she is one of the players who would genuinely relish being a wolf in this scenario

It's absolutely true. I was really hoping to be a wolf in this village, and I genuinely thought that's Fea invited me in the first place, since that pretty much the only way I've distinguished myself at all in werewolf. (Let's face it, as an innocent I'm mediocre at best.) I love being on the evil side, and I'm happy to get it more often than most. As to whether I am or not, well, I could go on about how Fea didn't choose me, but it would be silly and fruitless. Besides, you'd only have my word to go on, and nobody trusts me anyways. (See above note about being generally evil.)

As to my "convenient" schedule, I'm "conveniently" either sleeping or at work during almost the entire day. I'm a pre-school teacher. I have no computer and even if I did, I couldn't take my eyes off my kids long enough to do anything with it. So, the beginning and the end are the only times of Day which I can be around. And if you suggest I lose sleep to play, well, I dare you to handle a room of 9 one year olds by yourself with no sleep. Really, it's the children who suffer...

Also, bah to people and their traps. BAH, I say! If you're intentionally acting in a suspicious manner to catch a wolf, why shouldn't an innocent also find the behavior suspicious and label you a wolf?

Also, bah! to phantom and his trap. Anyone who's played a game with me will know that my first responses are to people who sit around and say "Day one is so useless, we have nothing to go on, oh woe is me for I simply can't just look at what people are saying to figure out if they're condradicting themselves, or going along with the flow, or anything else that's suspicion warranting, blah, blah, blah." It's what I do. Innocent or wolf, these poeple just irritate me. Anyone who claims there's no point to analysis has always found me as an ardent opponnent to that claim. So your trap misfired and caught a hot headed, argumentative, know-it-all. almost as bad as a wolf, but not quite.

Also, LPM's point about phantom and SPM being possible joint werewolves who have discovered each other, as it were, is something that had occured to me myself as I read further through the day. (And it gave me the willies.)

Certainly, it's a possibilty, but I wouldn't say it's as end all as he makes it sound. I can well understand where he's coming from. However, one hole I poke in the "the werewolves are definitely not gunning for each other" theory, is this- as a werewolf, I've never had a problem sacrificing my teammates. I know multiple people here who have done the same thing. Knowing full well who my teammates are, I go after them if they're suspicious, and I leave them alone if they aren't. It's much easier for a wolf in this game to do the same thing, when they can just focus on finding suspicious behavior and exploiting it, not caring if they lynch their comrade or not. They don't even have to pretend that they're really figuring it out for themselves and didn't know any better all along. My reaction to SPM's theory was a "Well, duh, why not?"

I have more analysis to do, but I doibt I'll get through them by the end of the Day. I will do my best, though. And in case I don't return:

++Diamond18

Because of what I've already posted, and because I have nothing better (yet).

[Roa_Aoife]

And I don't like your hair.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Which brings me to Elempi ...

Well, it’s not really a spat. I find him suspicious and he finds it tiresome that I should find him suspicious as it is so passé. I find it rather tiresome too, in fact, but suspicions are stubborn blighters once aroused.

My dear Elempi, your theory is perfectly plausible. Except for one thing. If the phantom and I were both Wolves, and had identified each other as such, then there is no way that either one of us would wish to see the other outlast him, bragging rights or no bragging rights.

I am rather inclined to view that finely wrought but (ultimately) implausible and potentially damaging theory of yours as a further sign in your guilt, Elempi.

There you have it. I am now convinced that Espiem's suspicions of me have less to do with the facts of this game and more to do with his inclinations. Therefore I'm done engaging Espiem as nothing I say will affect his inclination. Attack away, Espiem, I'm more than tired of it, and will not engage. You see, this is a game, and games are supposed to be fun, and this has stopped being fun. Okay, moving on.

As I said at the head of my theory post, I wasn't sure I believed my theory, and what has been said tends to reinforce that the phantoms was speaking the truth, which does not, mind you, make him pure as the driven snow; more like pure as roadside snow in March. I guess I'm just not used to innocents, IF he's innocent, being more devious than (or as least as devious as) the werewolves. I guess I've learned something then. Thanks. Be that as it may, I'm going to follow through on the one thing that has gotten corroboration from a number of fellow players, and that is the suspiciousness of Eomer.

So my vote is changing based on these corroborations:

--Diamond

++Eomer of the Rohirrim

[Roa_Aoife]

Borrowing phantom's list:

SPM for lmp (1)
Eomer for Kath (1)
lmp for Di (1)
Ang for Eomer (1)
Mith for Nogrod (1)
Esty for Di (2)
Mith take back Nogrod (0)
Mith for Eomer (2)
Phantom for Eomer (3)
Nogrod for Kath (2)
Kath for Esty (1)
Roa for Di (3)
Lmp takes back Di (2)
Lmp for Eomer (4)

I have to say that I'm not terribly convinced of Eomer's guilt, and I'm still not sure why everyone is voting for him. Certainly if he comes out innocent, I'll be far more wary of the people who seem to have jumped in quite suddenly. (And phantom, I'm not buying that "ploy" routine for this one. Not that I was buying it before, but I'll more than just ignore it.)

[Diamond18]

And I don't like your hair.

Buh.... my hair? You don't like my little tiara? *sniffles*

Alright, I'm in the throes of backpain and all Adviled up, and I just sat down at the computer at 8 PM to find a veritable slew of posts to read through. Gods, you people are vociferous. I have to admit that I started skimming because you all lost me somewhere on the last page.

I have no idea who the wolves are. I have very little idea what's going on. I hurt. I'm useless, I know it. But I can't do anything about it today, since there's no way I'm going to make head or tails of all these posts in 20 minutes.

Phantom, you needn't warn me about my behavior being lynchable. Go back and read that phrase of mine which you quoted, interpreting it in its most literal sense, and you will find that warning me aginst such an endeavor is fruitless.

At any rate, I'm not a nervous wolf. You'll never find out if I'd make a good wolf or not, and I need hardly say why.

Okay, but I will. This is my last Werewolf game for what I think will be a very long time. I'm only in this one because it's Fea's game and I could not miss it. I'm an innocent -- and I drew all that attention to Diamond's Rule because I'm looking back on my career from the standpoint of one saying goodbye. This is it. I'm innocent, always was, always will be rememebered (if remembered) as being perpetually clean as the driven snow. If a little wicked at times.

Looks like it's me or Eomer toDay. And, what ho, Eomer was the other chap on my grudge list of two!

++Eomer

I'd vote for myself if it wasn't Eomer on the chopping block across from me. Too good to pass up.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Buh.... my hair? You don't like my little tiara? *sniffles*

Nope, always hated it, always will, though I'll certainly miss seeing it werewolf games. (Even though I probably won't be around much myself.) It would be such a shame to find you really innocent and having never known the pleasures of being lupine.

[Diamond18]

I channelled all my evil energies into the two games I Moderated.

If you ever see a picture of Daffy in a tiara, do be sure to send it my way.

(Now I'm going go whimper in the corner and curse the day I decided to lug heavy boxes of books around whilst wearing heels.)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Day has ended. Eomer, love of my life, you shall be missed.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

They all knew. They could no longer deny her renewed - her deadly - role in their lives. They could do nothing... only pray, and only play along. They heard her whisper once again upon the wind, the whisper of insanity, a desperate artist, a sweet, sensual, maniacally disturbed and nightly composing the lives of her subjects as those within a play, murmuring softly to herself in the moonlight that her world, the world of these fated villagers, the world of these poor souls, was nothing more than a stage, with them nothing but players, each with a role to carry out, a part to play, and an exit to be written and performed. The long despairing village tried their level best to discount her... she was there... it would help nothing to dwell on her madness, yet others saw there could yet be method to it. They could not fall to endless tears... not yet... there was time. The Dark Lady had not yet won... so long as a single innocent soul survived, she could not win.

They reasoned, or tried. The friendships of a lifetime crumbled as accusations were slipped like silver daggers through the air and into innocent and guilty backs alike.

One name, just one, was spoken with great surety, and he that bore it tried, oh how he tried, and his words were beautiful, and his fight glorious, and his death utterly tragic.

"Traveller, you are new to us," spoke a man. "You met us with the evening and left us with the dawn, only to return again."

"I left," he responded, voice in dream, "to see my lady love."

"Is that so?" The village was afraid. Short-tempered. Uncertain. Cruel.

"Yes." He spat at their feet, glaring eye to eye, standing tall in the late afternoon shadows, and his skin burned gold in the sun.

"And where did you go, to see so fine a lady?" Merciless. He was finished. This had no meaning. Merely play. Torment. What answers would he give? What could he say to tell them what next they should do? Who amongst them would no longer be, once dawn broke the horizon and slowed the power of the Lady in the Tower? Could his next words have meaning? They wondered, and they prayed, and they knew they could not be certain.

He stood and shivered slightly, and his eyes became distant and he was silent 'til a stone flew through the air, whistling in the silence, and kissed his forehead with crimson affection. He glared, feeling no pain, and his dark eyes now glowed brilliantly in the twilight of evening.

"You would dare to doubt me my affections! Weak fools, you all," he seemed to grow suddenly in stature, and they withdrew in fear. "You would wilt in her presence, in her gaze, in her dark gaze, for my mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun. Her hair is midnight and her skin moonlight, and all I have is hers and she has me."

He rose, madness in his eyes, and attacked with bare claws, with wild abandon to defend himself from their hatred.

The single string music of a bow, the whistle of the arrow, the dull drum thud of impact, and he fell. HIs blood pooled around him and his lips parted, and once more, for the last time, he spoke, and it was with endless sadness as his last strength drained from him, and his eyes saw clear again, and he tried only to explain, to apologize, to ask them to understand. "My only love," he begged with final breath, "sprung from my only hate."

As her slave lay dying, the Dark Lady, high in her chambers, laughed to the sky.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

She came to him as he slept and they spoke, and he was afraid, but he stood tall on the cemetery bank upon which the moonlight slept sweetly. He heard no voice, but words made themselves clear to him, and her gown billowed in an unseen breeze, and her eyes were dark and colder than the soulless shadowed sky.

"What is this," he asked, and could not hear his voice, "which I see before me, speaking words I cannot hear with lips that move no more than the frozen stars that light us and call lie to this place? Come, let me clutch thee. I have thee not, and yet I see thee still. Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible to feeling as to sight? or art thou but a shadow of the mind, a false creation, proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?"

"Tell me, poet, what you think you see."

"A lady - a spectress of deceit - a fearsome creature of the night. And..." he paused, sighed, "I glimpse before me that which will end me." The village slept, and the unhappy spirits slept uneasily in their graves, and the gravedigger dreamt of his death, and in his dream a child screamed, and a red-haired man looked blindly to his past, and a hound howled; and they returned to him, and a woman wept; and he heard the faint tap dance of rolling dice.

And when they woke at dawn, as though from enchantment, the village looked in resigned sadness upon the body of the gravedigger, lain carefully, with no signs of struggle, within his own grave, pale and peaceful, and a headstone lay upon the ground above him, and it read, carefully carved, 'To sleep, to risk to die... perchance in dream.'

[Diamond18]

I know it's early, but The Dark Lady said we could post, so....

I cannot express in mere words how happy I am that Eomer was a wolf. There's a bit of revenge I can lay to rest. I am almost sure that he was the hand picked wolf, I mean, he was the love of her life, eh?

But Elempi, why Elempi? I thought he was gathering some suspicion, enough to keep him alive. Hmm. I shall have to ponder this. After television, of course.

[Roa_Aoife]

Ah, the death of LMP. Why? To throw the obvious suspicion on SPM? Or to throw suspicion away from him?

*sigh* Back to my analysis, though they seem to be going unused. I was held up at work, so it's going to be a little while yet.

[the phantom]

THE LIVING-

Anguirel
Diamond18
Estelyn Telcontar
Kath
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Roa_Aoife
the phantom
The Saucepan Man

THE DEAD-

Boromir88 (innocent)- bravely faced the gallows on Day 1
mormegil (innocent)- bled by the WWs on Night 2
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Werewolf)- outed by shrewd villagers on Day 2
littlemanpoet (innocent)- lain carefully in grave on Night 3