Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXV: All Star Crossed With Nowhere to Go

[arcticstorm]

As my question about rune has not been answered yet and I am not going to be arround for the remainder of the day, I will vote for the one I thought the most suspicious earlier.

++ Meneltarmacil

[Valier]

Well I was just about to post my thoughts when something weird just happened....I was taking a look at the people that have been voted for so far. To me none of the three (Farael, Macalaure, Rune) Look suspisious to me today. They all seem their same Day 1 self as always. I was just pondering about who I thought IS suspisious when I thought "Hey where's Jenny?" I thought this very odd and thought about it some more then I was about to post , but before I did I refreshed the page and who should be the last poster?....Jenny, with a vote for me....how odd and a bit strange...so I gotta go with it for today....

++JennyHallu

(Ah and Jenny I was only speechless for awhile, just gathering my thoughts. Day 1's are just torture.)

[Durelin]

O Horror, horror, horror! O hell kite!

We are all doomed if we do not stick together, us innocent bystanders who have been lost in the most twisted web of romantic design, the most bloody wyrd.

*stops reading from the script*

Anyway...

I find Fin's numbers rather helpful, though they make my head hurt. But I think it makes the most sense for the Lovers to be more afraid of each other than us Ordos. I mean, they want to survive with just their own lover, and it's the Werecreatures that are the most dangerous...one of each lover pair is a werecreature. We ordos don't know anything, so we're most likely to kill each other.

But can we use this to our advantage? Well...maybe, but I don't know how.

So, discovering the identity of Lovers... Looking at voting pairs could possibly help, but they're likely going to be careful about it. Day 1, I don't think they're likely going to vote together, as driving the vote in one direction isn't really necessary at all. I don't know if they ever have the need to drive the vote in a certain direction, only away from each other. This is typical wolf stuff...the difference is, they're not going to be driving the voting away from the other werecreatures (the other Lover pairs).

I thought that there were only going to be female-male pairings, but I realized (almost to my delight, because I feel like knowing such a thing is almost like *cheating*...) that I missed poor lost Di's remarks about that. At least that means I get to avoid embarrassingly placing someone on the wrong list in a male and female categorizing of players...

I think Farael has been playing a little foolishly, carelessly I think...and I think that points more towards innocence. I look at Rune, Valier, Mac, and Lhuna the same way at this point, I think: all being fairly straightforward and not overly *tip-toeing* around or trying too be overly 'investigative,' for a lack of a better word. I can't be at all certain about any of them, of course.

At this point, I'm looking more at Menel...

Originally Posted by Menel

Mormegil, would you please elaborate on why I seem suspicious? I'm not a Lover, nor am I a Werething.

Those of us who are innocent have no clue who anyone is, period. Whether or not you are a Lover or Werething is not something we are inclined to know, so pointing that out is completely useless. Unless of course you are suggesting supsicion of morm at this point, which is of course not at all baseless (suspicion of anyone at anytime isn't ever completely baseless).

I'm not sure why, but that statement really bothers me.

Kitanna is giving me that 'flying under the radar' feel, which makes me want to keep an eye on her.

arcticstorm is flying under the radar for me, too, but not in the same way. Not in a way that makes me feel like imagining him ripping me open with tooth and claw. So far he has been sensible and has not appeared to be trying to dodge anything (though he hasn't had much to dodge yet, either). We'll have to see about him.

Jenny is obviously pressed for time, and at this point I can't and won't say anything about her. Kath and Rikae haven't been able to be here at all, yet, so I cannot and will not say anything about them either.

Those are the only two that stand out to me

Nogrod, Lommy, and morm all stand out because of how much they say and how much thought they put into things. These three will be the most difficult for me to feel any gut-reactions about. Ugh. I'm not going to get into analyzing any of these guys yet.

Anyway...hmm. I hate defensiveness. It's a pet-peeve of mine. But flying under the radar bothers me even more...

++Kitanna, though I think Farael's death is all but sealed, seeing as there are not too many votes left. We'll see if that's a good thing or a bad thing...

Edit: Cross-posted with arcticstorm, Valier...

I find Valier's vote to be disconcerting, but not in a way that makes me think her to be guilty. I think she is being rash with her vote, and hope that will change in the following Days.

[Nogrod]

Well, the situations seem to change constantly... I was writing a post about the interesting things that were happening around Lhuna and as there were too many knights in shining armour to lift her into their arms I started thinking if we threathened Lhuna and saw what would happen? Would all the princes still defended her? Try it toMorrow if I'm not with you then. I think there might be something...

Just to post my "best case" (not much, but something):
arcticstorm, in #36 (check it and you see the discrapancy in argumentation and the grounds given), made very reasonable-sounding arguments on the actual things different people had done during the day, but had only this kind of things to say about Lhuna:

Lhuna's vote just comes from her sleeping disorder, how, especially today, is she supposed to give a good vote with so little to go on and a sleeping disorder.

, and:

Farael's challenge of Holby could have been just been panic and confusion, not necessarily something to be suspected. But at the same time, his constant argument that everyone is voting for him because of Lhuna is ridiculous.

--------------------

But to the bussiness. Votes so far:
Lhuna --> Farael (Farael1)
Rune --> Farael (Farael2)
Morm --> Farael (Farael3)
Lommy --> Macalaure (Farael3, Macalaure1)
Menel --> Farael (Farael4, Macalaure1)
Macalaure --> Rune (Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1)
Jenny --> Valier (Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1, Valier1)
arcticstorm --> Menel (Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1, Valier1, Menel1)
Valier --> Jenny (Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1, Valier1, Menel1, Jenny1)
Durelin --> Kitanna (Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1, Valier1, Menel1, Jenny1, Kitanna1)

No pressure. No competition. No revealments or panicky moves from the baddies to be seen. Over half of the votes cast and no one knows about Kath or Rikae...

But as for now, the last three votes look somewhat bad to my eyes as they have known the situation and still spreaded the vote unnecessarily wide. Jenny said she run out of time. But arcticstorm or Valier? Nicely put votes, if you're baddies. Unthoughtful, if you're goodies...

PS. X-d with Durelin (statistics updated). The same goes for her as for the other last ones...

[Durelin]

You're almost contradicting yourself, Nogrod. While I understand both why you'd be concerned about concentration of suspicion and too spread out voting when one person already has four votes, I think how quickly you decide that people who aren't jumping on one of the lynch boats so that someone else might go in the place of Farael is unfair and illogical.

If you thought/think that an attempt to 'save' Farael or something, you might have suggested it. Everyone went for their own suspicions, which is all one can do when there isn't some sort of plan. And the only people who might have a real plan at this point is probably the Lovers.

And ooh, there are more votes left than I thought. Things might get more interesting yet...

[Naria]

Okay so I will vote for

++Menel

Mostly for the reason that I've stated and others have stated. Morm didn't seem to be making that big of a deal "accusing" you and didn't seem to push the issue any further, yet you keep insisting on an explanation. I know you are completely mad, but why the insistance?

[Nogrod]

I'll try to make some competition for the last couple of hours. The one-vote -gainers then... one of them I will have to vote:

- Mac I would like to see around as he's an asset when his innocent and the "case" against him is not very good.
- Rune is always slippery to me, I never get him right... Now I think there is something that is not okay with him, but that probably means he's okay.
- Valier's placing of her vote is really suspicious and she might try to use the legends of her family to evil ends... but still, she might have just being herself.
- Menel I would like to see as an innocent around, but his continual defenciveness has made me wonder and somewhat suspect him too.
- Jenny left suddenly and acted strangely, but RL is an excuse.
- Kitanna might be a cunning player enough to speak wisely and stay more in the background. I would fear her as an enemy but am inclined to believe her more innocent by now.


So:

++ Meneltarmacil

Too upset I say and too much assuring his innocence.

But don't forget the "Lhuna circle", not the least arcticstorm tomorrow. And if for some miracle Farael is alive toMorrow, he's still on top of my suspicions...

Durelin:
If all of us last voters just come up with a new candidate to vote, nothing will happen and the baddies will love the situation. I might have wished to vote for Farael, arcticstorm or Lhuna, but that would be spreading the vote too much, so I had to come up with something else (and I've lost half of my sleeping time soon for it... ). That is the reason why I thought that the last given votes are either unthought-of or suspicious. We have so many baddies around that it is totally possible that they might have come to vote at the good spot (not all you four, but one, two?) just to make sure their necks are safe and no one suspects them (but I...).

If you thought/think that an attempt to 'save' Farael or something, you might have suggested it. Everyone went for their own suspicions, which is all one can do when there isn't some sort of plan. And the only people who might have a real plan at this point is probably the Lovers.

Farael still tops my own list of suspicion, as I said. Plan or not. I don't have a plan, but I can see that we may play with ways that may bring us some valuable information or then ignoring the chances to get it... You know, we villagers can't play as a team as we can't trust each other as persons, but we can trust rational arguments about the ways that are most profitable to us and help us the best and look around if some people try to play in ways that are harmful to us... Then we just have to see who was unthoughtful and who was malicious... (and that's no easy thing either)

EDIT: X'd with Naria

[mormegil]

Valier's vote seems awfully knee-jerk to me!

Care to explain? Essentially she said that she found Jenny suspicious because she hadn't posted and then when she saw that Jenny voted for her she decided to return in kind.

Granted up to this point I didn't find Valier overly suspicious just a bit quiet so Jenny's vote doesn't make much sense to me but Valier's reaction is a bit more odd.

[Holbytlass]

(Farael4, Macalaure1, Rune1, Valier1, Menel1, Jenny1, Kitanna1)
uurrgh! this is terrible-a partial bandwagon and the rest spread so wide.
no one seems particularly suspicious but Menel does seem a bit too defensive.

++menel

EDIT:[Durelin]Things might get more interesting yet...[/quote]
xposted with nogrod morm naria

[Kitanna]

I personally don't find Farael overly suspicious. At first I saw his accusation of Holby as something that was all in good fun (er, what can be considered as such in this situation).
Half of me says "Farael should be lynched, just look at his posts and suspicions."
But the other half says "This is a huge mistake."
And with such uncertainty I find it hard to cast a vote today. Farael has plenty of suspicions following him around, but no one has really come forward to defend him, which is what holds me back from voting for him. If he was a werecreature I feel his Lover (or vice versa) would come forward and try as hard as they could to convince other voters to vote for someone else. But so far no one has been attacked like Farael has.
The only person to give me a real vibe of attempting to sway away from Farael is Mac.

Though I find Farael most suspicious right now, I agree with Nogrod: We need some competition here. For obvious reasons, I don't think I would make a good one

That's not a very good defense for someone whose lover already had 4 votes.
Since no one has really tried to vote for Farael I'm conflicted about how to vote.
I'll be back soon with a vote. Possibly for Farael...

[Farael]

Originally Posted by arcticstorm

werecreatures would do, could be very helpful in the future, not that he is one. Farael's challenge of Holby could have been just been panic and confusion, not necessarily something to be suspected. But at the same time, his constant argument that everyone is voting for him because of Lhuna is ridiculous.

Mind you, I've never said all my votes were because of Lhuna... as a matter of fact, last time I posted I had no votes going for me, other than Lhuna's

And for you Fools of a Took that question my words, I am not claiming to be the seer, for that would be foolish indeed. I have played the wrong cards, for very few of you have been in a similar situation with me before and yet.... ask Aiwendil if I go wrong when I get one of my hunches.

'Tis fine my dear villagers, lynch me if you must to clear the air. Just make sure to be smarter to-morrow and see who has been proposing my death the most.

I'd go for arcticstorm almost solely on the basis of the quite above... I never argued that anyone voted for me because of Lhuna!

But if not, I still think Holbytlass is a good target. See how she's been silent after sticking her neck too far out before? I'm telling you but you won't listen, 'tis fine.... the gallows it is for me, but tonight some more of you shall suffer a grizzly death. And I can assure you, that will have nothing to do with my survival, for I am an ordo. Don't believe me? lynch me then, and loose a great asset for your puny village.

[Kitanna]

I think if Farael was guilty someone would have come forward to try and defend him because if he was guilty they'd die too. That's why I can't vote to lynch him.

++ Menel

I agree with Morm about him being overly defensive over nothing.

[Fintaeph]

I found myself convinced, in turn, by both sides of the debate about Farael. But the fact that no one has come to his defence in any way does seem to strange. So strange, in fact, that all those things I thought bad of him now seem petty. (Of course, now I've come to his defence. I hope that doesn't prove bad for my health.)

My vote is going for Menel. Having reread the log, I must say the defensiveness *is* a little aggressive. It even continued after mormegil (the accuser in question) voted for someone else. Bad vibes. I've got nothing else to go on, so there it is.

++Menel

[Farael]

I believe the deadline is well.. RIGHT NOW and nothing much has changed since my last post. Well, I might make it now, but I probably won't survive tomorrow anyway.

++Menel
P.S: If I die, kill Holbytlass for me.

[Diamond18]

Deadline time. Stop posting. Menel is dead. Lovers may commence PMing. Watch for death knell.

[Diamond18]

The Elves gathered at Menel's door, faces stern (yet noble, for they were Elves, after all).

Arctic Storm was the first to bang on his door, crying, "D'you have any mirouvour?" Then he remembered what they were about and amended, "Er, we've come to kill you!"

"Go away," came Menel's voice from inside. "I'm busy."

"Let's break down the door," suggested Naria, nibbling on Lembas.

"I agree," agreed Nogrod. He went to his smithy and grabbed up a pair of red hot tongs. Holby whispered to an oliphaunt, who readied its mighty tusks for action. Kitanna chose her heftiest chamberpot, one with the goods still in it. Fintaeph opted to use a particularly fine quality undead limb of the leg variety. Farael chose to use his bare hands, as mad Elves often do.

They were ready. Holby whispered to her Oliphaunt once more, and with one toss of its head it tore through Menel's front door.

Menel looked up from his table, annoyed. A hulking creature went "Bwaahhlhhghggfur!" Menel set down the needle and thread with which he had been stitching together fingers and pointed his own finger at Farael. "He's evil, I tell you!"

But it was to no avail. Arctic Storm leapt upon him and grabbed his arms, pinning them behind the Mad Scientist's back. Naria threw a piece of lembas at him. Nogrod, Kitanna, and Fintaeph set upon him with their weapons, while Farael danced around the room going, "Hoo hoo hoo hoo!" in a happy, if mad, sort of way.

The dirty deed done, the Elves stepped back and looked upon Menel. Nogrod's tongs stuck out of his chest, the slime from Kitanna's pot clung to him, and the beating he had taken from the undead leg, well, let's just say it wasn't pretty.

One thing was for certain, nobody was particularly shook up over his death, and he was just an Elf, nothing more.

"Haarroooooo!" went the hulking figure on the worktable. They killed it too, just in case.

~*~*~*~

The Living Elves:

Lommy - Ostrich Chaser
Mac - Builder of Gibbets, unemployed for millennia
Kath - Flower Girl
Kitanna - One Legged Chambermaid
JennyHallu - Countess
Nogrod - a Smith of the Billmarins
Valier - Arranger
Holby - Oliphaunt Whisperer
Durelin - Lead Tragic Actor
arcticstorm - Raving Alcoholic and Resident Moocher
morm - City Street Cleaner
Lhuna - Beautiful Girl with Sleeping Sickness
Rune - Humungous Fungus Grower
Naria - Lemba Baker
Farael - Patient suffering from Mad Elf Disease
Rikae - Contortionist
Fintaeph - Mutton Herder and Purveyor of Fine-Quality Undead Prosthetic Limbs

The Dead 'Uns

tgwbs - Tragic Elven Hero and Lover of Diamond - (co-mod) - Stabbed himself eight times and subsequently eaten by the Werebird

Diamond - Elven Maid - (mod) - Crushed in the embrace of the Werebear

Menel - Mad Scientist - (ordo) - Beaten with an undead leg and a chamber pot and stabbed with red hot tongs (Day 1)

[Rikae]

I'm here - can't comment now, all tied up, will read the thread and post this afternoon.
EDIT: Make that tomorrow afternoon! Sorry.

[Diamond18]

After killing Menel, the Elves retreated to their homes and waited warily for Nightfall. Night fell and the moon rose, full and cheeky, above the desert. All was hushed for a while, but then....

An ominous howl split the night, followed by a foreboding flutter of giant wings. Somewhere in the distance came the sound of purring, but evil purring. The night smelt of bear pelt.

Two brave souls crept from their homes, and took up watch before two separate households. They both had a long and uneventful night.

Toward morning, the Watcher began to walk back to his home. Little did he know that from the shadows, a pair of feline eyes were gleaming at him. Evilly.

The Werecat slunk after the Watcher, barely able to silence its purring as it anticipated its kill.

Nogrod, for that is indeed the identity of our valiant hero, stopped at his door. The tiny hairs on the back of his neck stood up, and he looked around, wary. His hand reached for his sword, but alas, he was not fast enough. The Werecat leapt upon him and clamped its mighty jaws onto his throat, snarling in exaltation as it snapped his neck. From there it dragged him into the long grass and tore skin and meat from bone. Another figure joined it and reached out to stroke its gleaming fur (evilly). "Nice kitty," breathed an Elven voice. "Such a pretty kitty...."

Naria, the Werecat, turned to her lover, and purred. Arctic Storm was about to say something more about her feline loveliness when he felt a downdraft. He looked up and saw the Werebird swooping down upon him. Naria screeched and leapt up, trying to bat the giant bird away, but it was to no avail. The Werebird snatched Arctic Storm up in its talons and lifted his screaming head to its vicious beak. It devoured him head first.

The Werecat let lose a wild, heartbroken yowl. She ran after the Werebird as it flew away, but the winged creature of doom only cackled as it disappeared into the night sky. With a single last unearthly sound of torment, Naria ran headfirst into the Ringbearer's Stone. Her skull split open upon impact and she fell to the ground.

Elsewhere, the Werebear tore down the door of another unsuspecting Elf. It raided the house for yummy pots of honey, but found only dirty chamberpots filled with offal. Roaring in anger, the Werebear entered the bedroom and clamped its mighty jaws onto Kitanna's leg, attempting to drag her from her bed. Kitanna screamed and grabbed onto her bedpost, resisting. Years of hauling chamberpots around had given her an exceptionally good grip. At first the bear could not dislodge her, but then gave it some extra effort, and tore Kitanna in two. It ran from the house, Kitanna's lower half in tow. "My sweet teddy bear," said an Elf following after. "Don't fret, I have honey for you...."

Meanwhile, in another part of the enclave, Rune was up late working on his fungus. "You will be the most humungous fungus in all of Harad!" he cooed lovingly to his fungus. He was a lonely guy. No family. No pets. No lover.

He was about to retire for the night when he heard a menacing growl from the door. He spun around and saw the nassssssty yellow eyes of the Werewolf sizing him up. "You will not harm the fungus!" Rune cried. The Werewolf just laughed.

The next morning, Rune was nowhere to be found. That is, until the Elves noticed the freshly minced fertilizer packed around the base of the humungous fungus....

~*~*~*~

The Living Elves:

Lommy - Ostrich Chaser
Mac - Builder of Gibbets, unemployed for millennia
Kath - Flower Girl
JennyHallu - Countess
Valier - Arranger
Holby - Oliphaunt Whisperer
Durelin - Lead Tragic Actor
morm - City Street Cleaner
Lhuna - Beautiful Girl with Sleeping Sickness
Farael - Patient suffering from Mad Elf Disease
Rikae - Contortionist
Fintaeph - Mutton Herder and Purveyor of Fine-Quality Undead Prosthetic Limbs

The Dead 'Uns

tgwbs - Tragic Elven Hero and Lover of Diamond - (co-mod) - Stabbed himself eight times and subsequently eaten by the Werebird

Diamond - Elven Maid - (mod) - Crushed in the embrace of the Werebear

Menel - Mad Scientist - (ordo) - Beaten with an undead leg and a chamber pot and stabbed with red hot tongs (Day 1)

Nogrod - a Smith of the Billmarins - (watcher) - Savagely murdered by the Werecat and devoured in the long grass (Night 2)

Arctic Storm - Raving Alcoholic, Resident Moocher, and Lover of Naria (lover) - Devoured head first by the Werebird (Night 2)

Naria - Lemba Baker - (werecat) - Dashed out her brains on the Ringbearer's Rock (Night 2)

Kitanna - One Legged Chambermaid - (ordo) - Ripped in two by the Werebear (Night 2)

Rune - Humungous Fungus Grower - (ordo) - Minced up into fertilizer by the Werewolf (Night 2)

[Valier]

Are you freakin' kidding me? Five dead people. If this happens again we may all be dead really quick. At least a couple got killed as well, but losing our Watcher is devistating. Since we started with a day phase the Watcher only had a dream last night, which doesn't help us any. We still have the Ranger...they should stay hidden as long as possible, they may be our only hope of giving us villagers time to weed out the Werelovers.

So we have 6 Werelovers and 6 Ordos/Ranger.....I have no idea how to work out any odds, but I am sure someone else can. I have reread the days threads and not much of interest has sparked anything in me yet. I only have my weird suspisions about people so far, which are not concrete I know, so I won't share them just yet.
I must say though that I did not think that Menel or Rune were Werecreatures yesterday, that is why I did not vote for them. Farael though, now that I have looked over your posts, you were acting a bit strange and I would like to hear more from you today. Jenny I know I was quick to vote for you yesterday, but I just got a weird feeling and went with it. I would like to hear some more from you as well today. I will be checking in as much as possible tomorrow and will share more of my thoughts then.

[Lhunardawen]

Ohmigoodness. I had this terrible dream. There were five dead bodies lying around the village and, and--

*Lhuna looks around*

What the heck?! Somehow it didn't look this horrible in my nightmare!

Okay, so we lost five people, two of which we are glad to lose, and three otherwise. And the Watcher on the first Night, good grief! If there's anything we can gain from this loss, at least from now on the werecreatures might be distracted in hunting down their fellow baddies, leaving us poor innocents be in the Night, and thus aiding us in our daily lynchings. We'll catch all of them, and thank them before they die yet!

Also, we know more now from all these deaths than we did yesterDay, and I hope this will aid us in searching for the villains. The way I see it now, we could probably trace the individual deaths to potential suspects, and lynch whoever we find most likely responsible for a killing. If anyone has better ideas, though, come out and share it.

Since no sane woman (even women with sleeping problems) would be able to sleep properly with a puzzle like this in mind, I'll be off reminiscing the last Day in the light of new developments. Toodles!

[mormegil]

Lhuna for Farael (Farael 1)
Rune for Farael (Farael 2)
Mormegil for Farael (Farael 3)
Thinlo for Mac (Farael 3, Macalaure 1)
Menel for Farael (Farael 4, Macalaure 1)
Macalaure for Rune (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1)
JennyHallu for Valier (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1)
Articstorm for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 1)
Valier for JennyHallu (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 1, Jenny 1)
Durelin for Kitanna (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 1, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Naria for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 2, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Nogrod for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 3, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Holby for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 4, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Kitanna for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 5, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Fintaeph for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 6, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)
Farael for Menel (Farael 4, Macalaure 1, Rune 1, Valier 1, Menel 7, Jenny 1, Kitanna 1)

No vote: Kath and Rikae

Voted for a known innocent: Mac, Holby, Fintaeph, Farael.

The most interesting thing is that it looked like Farael was dead at 4 votes with nobody above 1 and then all the sudden a crazy train started for Menel. I take my share of the blame but I still cannot understand why he was so defensive against my seemingly innocuous first post. It was more in jest than anything yet he twice requested/demanded an explanation. I found it odd but not enough to vote for him.

I did vote for Farael and stick behind that vote. The two that look most suspicious in their votes yesterday are Holby and Fintaeph as they cast votes that were pivotal in saving Farael. This game is interesting due to the lover dynamic. I would postulate that generally lovers wouldn't vote the same, yet Naria and Artic did. There is a circumstance where I would believe that they would vote the same and it would generally appear innocent enough and that is exactly what happnened yesterday with Farael. Farael's vote for Menel could easily be explained as self-preservation so if his lover voted with him it wouldn't be seen as a direct connection. This begs the question as to if it's Holby or Fintaeph but it's really irrelevant as we can simply lynch Farael and watch his partner wither in horror and despair...a fitting way to die.

Valier I still hold that your vote yesterday was extremely odd and stuck out to me. I'm not sure what to make of it though. I know that you consistently "go with your gut" but I'm not sure how you could get a gut feeling on Jenny when it seemed more like knee-jerk to me. I don't think you overly suspicious yet but I will watch you closely.

Lommy bears watching, if you catch my drift.

Rikae and Kath any explanations for not voting?

Jenny gave a RL reason yesterday but I expect more substance today...that goes for Lhuna as well. We have one day now and some evidence with us. I expect a more reasoned and sound vote today. While I agree with your candidate from yesterday your reasoning was shoddy at best.

Edit: Cross posted with Lhuna

[Lhunardawen]

morm, you forgot Durelin. Kitanna is innocent.

Which is an interesting vote, actually, as it spread the options to seven people. Her reasoning was that Kitanna seemed to be flying under the radar, and it bothered her. Fly-away? It's a safe vote in that it was well-reasoned, for a Day 1 vote...for now, I'm inclined to trust her.

Right now the person still standing out most to me is Farael. I know by history that he really tends to be...like this. He's speaking too rashly to be a bad guy. But then again, he almost always did, jumping to all sorts of suspicions and all that, but this time it seems more...jumpy. Argh, it's hard to read. My suspicious guess is that he's trying to look ordinary (because really, an ordo has nothing to lose being killed, compared to all the other roles, so he can say all he wants), and should the Watcher suspect him, that's what he'll see. A Lover? That's still the best I can come up with. But for now I'll be keeping as keen an eye on him as my sleepy self could, especially since he voted for Menel when he was already safe - why didn't he stick to his suspicion of Holby and voted for her?

Just a thought...I suppose Nogrod wouldn't be so careless as to leave us a bold hint to his role? Did the werecreatures kill him simply because he's a formidable foe? I'll take another look at all he said.

Look here, this is interesting:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As I said, I have no objection, on the basis of what I know this far, for Farael to be lynched. I'm not going to die with him. This is a question of basic tactics.

Not that I know what to make of it.

Also, he said to threaten my knights in shining armour and see what happens. I have them? Oooh! I always knew I was a Sleeping Beauty.

Anyways, from what I've read, I think he dreamt of an ordo (or at least ordo-seeming) first Night. Sigh. This is really such a tragic loss.

Valier...her vote was just too something to come from a baddie. Surely she knew of its repercussions...or was she too evil to care? And whatever happened yesterDay to those thoughts she said she was about to post? Right now, though, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but she's definitely worth watching.

Fintaeph voted for Menel when Farael was already safe. There's also something strange about her reasoning. On my watch list...

Holby...to save Farael? If so, that was some spectacle from Farael. Who would think they are working together?

So, right now I find Farael, Valier, Fintaeph, and Holby most questionable (note not "suspicious"), and there needs more to be heard from Jenny, Kath, and Rikae. But knowing me, that's likely to change as soon as I post this. Sheesh.

[Lhunardawen]

Why is everyone else asleep? I thought I was the one with sleeping sickness here.

I realised that if we want to trace each death to a killer, we have to consider their motives. Were they trying to kill the Watcher, or their fellow Werecreature/Lover?

The story said:

Nogrod - a Smith of the Billmarins - (watcher) - Savagely murdered by the Werecat and devoured in the long grass

Arctic Storm - Raving Alcoholic, Resident Moocher, and Lover of Naria (lover) - Devoured head first by the Werebird

Naria - Lemba Baker - (werecat) - Dashed out her brains on the Ringbearer's Rock

Kitanna - One Legged Chambermaid - (ordo) - Ripped in two by the Werebear

Rune - Humungous Fungus Grower - (ordo) - Minced up into fertilizer by the Werewolf

Okay, so it was Naria who killed Nogrod. But who would kill arcticstorm, Kitanna, and Rune? And why?

This is too much to think about; I hope I don't fall asleep in the attempt. I'll try to be back with my thoughts on this.

[Lhunardawen]

arcticstorm:
In the weird post #36 he says Lhuna's vote comes of a sleeping disorder, and having such, and so little to go on, she couldn't be expected to give a good vote; Holby's list was unsuspicious; Mac's "what ifs" on werecreatureness could be very helpful in the future, not that he is one; Farael's gung-ho attitude towards Holby could be attributed to panic and confusion and is not necessarily suspicious, but his constant argument that everyone's voting for him because of Lhuna is ridiculous (incidentally, Lhuna also finds this observation ridiculous, because she has seen nothing of the sort); and he wanted Mac to elaborate on why he found Rune a little strange, because he didn't.

Kitanna:
She declared Farael and Holby as not particularly weresomethingy, but both worth close watching (post #24). In post #50 she expands on the issue regarding Farael, saying that if Farael was a Lover he should have had someone defending him by then, and she mentions Mac's example as an un-Loverly (too feeble) attempt of doing that.

Rune:
He found Holby's list humourous and a good read, and shouldn't be used to justify voting for her (post #18). Same post he said that he didn't think Farael was Lhuna's lover just because he didn't retaliate, and that he himself had often defended Lhuna. Seven posts down he voted for Farael because this annoyed him:

Originally Posted by Farael

and those of you who know my playing style should do well in listening to me. It has been proven perilous for the ordos to ignore me.

Hmm. For all we know all of this says nothing. Make of it what you will. I'm tired. Zzz.

[Kath]

Yes morm, there is a reason for my no show yesterDay. Pure stupidity. See the admin thread for details.

But yeesh! 5 dead. Ok that's one lover pair down but losing our Watcher sort of negates that. It seems that morm in particular is keen to lynch the (previously) main candidate from yesterDay. So, who wants to give me a reason why we're assuming Farael is evil? I've only skimmed yesterDay's posts so far so a nice concise explanation would be lovely.

So, let's look at Lhuna's question: Who would kill arcticstorm, Kitanna and Rune?

I think arcticstorm's death was due to the fact that he didn't really have anything concrete to say yesterDay. He asked questions of others to gauge their suspicions but had few of his own. Either someone thought his death wouldn't leave a trail or they did actually see this as being symptomatic of being a Lover. Now he was taken by the WereBird. So with the former explanation we're looking for someone who wants to cover their back and with the latter someone who wants to get rid of the competition.

With Rune I think it's possible that he was killed either by Farael or to set Farael up, because his suspicion lay entirely on him. Having read most of the posts from yesterDay I think the former more likely, as it seems quite a Farael-ish thing to do to kill someone and then claim that it couldn't possibly have been him because how stupid would that have been, it must have been a set up.

I'm not sure why Kitanna would have been killed, unless it was simply that one of the creatures felt threatened by her. Sorry, stuck on this one.

One person I'm not sure on is Lommy. Her first post is very ... sensible would be the best word for it I suppose, and full of what we can and can't do to win. I dislike this kind of post because it attempts to dictate how we do things so it could just be my own opinion coming through, but I'm just not sure it fits Lommy.

And of course we can't forget dear old morm. Amazingly so far he doesn't look all that suspicious. However, there are a couple of points. One is missing out Durelin as Lhuna pointed out, possible Lover pairing though I don't really believe morm would slip up like that. The other is the push on Valier for what he thinks is a 'knee-jerk' reaction. The thing is the Valier always behaves that way. If she's on our side it's good for us, and perhaps we should look at Jenny, but if she isn't then woe betide us, for our resident evil-weeder-outer isn't really present.

So, an explanation for the suspicion over Farael please (though having gone through the posts a few times now I'm certainly beginning to see it) and then I'll try to work out who I'm actually suspicious of so far.

EDIT: Cross posted with Lhuna.

[Macalaure]

So right now there's 6 innocents and 6 baddies. Since we lost our watcher, there now is no difference between the guilty and the innocent lover anymore.

It is a weird thing actually. I know I'm innocent, so there will be more guilty than innocent people reading this. Although the baddies will probably try to lynch other baddies at day like we all do, they have a second thought in saying what they say. So of the arguments that I read there will be less honest ones than crooked ones. Makes you paranoid almost.

I'll have a look at the crazy train.
It was started by the lover pair arctic and Naria. Strange behaviour for a couple. I guess they really thought him guilty and maybe were looking for a lynched were-creature under their belt.
Then the watcher Nogrod joined. Was it really just to put pressure on somebody else? Was his saying "Farael is still most suspicious to me" a feint and in fact he dreamt of him and tried to save him inconspiciously? But even if that is the case, there are three innocent lovers and five real innocents (plus me) now, so it's not reliable anyway.
Holbytlass crossed with both Naria and Nogrod, so she didn't know of the importance of her vote. Her reasoning isn't the best and what she said long before was unsubstantial joking. I'm a little suspicious of her.
Next in line is Kitanna, now known innocent. Thought Farael innocent and wanted to save him. Proof that you can defend somebody without being in love with him.
Then Fintaeph voted short before the deadline. He said Farael might be innocent because nobody came to defend him. He then votes Menel, whom nobody cared to defend either. Hmmmm...
Then finally Farael voted him, but he knew his vote wouldn't change anything anymore. Interesting Farael told us to retaliate if he dies. He knew he was not going to get lynched, so he was talking about being killed at night. This would be of course ridiculous if he turned out a dead lover. It might be a bluff, though.

[Thinlómien]

Knowing that half of the village is evil is certainly not something to calm my mind... Really, instead of a few villagers, a suspicion list should include half of the people. I must say that the baddies are playing quite well since no one really stands out to my evil-detector.

It seems I was wrong about Naria. Well, everyone makes mistakes...

While rereading, a few things caught my attention. First of all, Durelin's long post was very odd. I don't know precisely why, but it makes me wary of her. It's somehow shady and saying nothing while saying a lot, and her vote is more than weird. If somebody is flying under the radar, what does a vote for the person help? (especially if it's a single vote from a person who thinks the lynch is already sealed?)

I'm still suspicious about Mac. Besides that I still think his first post yesterday was a bit strange, I'm used to hear more contribution from him and this time he has been somehow softer than before; I'm used to a bit edgier Mac who is not afraid to accuse or speak.

Morm's theory yesterday about Farael trying to convince us about he being the watcher is a bit far-fetched I think. It would take a very cunning and a very bold baddie to do that, and I'm really thinking such person would be an especially cunning and bold person and (no offense) Farael does not strike me as a person to this. Rather I think morm might be up to something...

I'm not trying to say that I feel Farael innocent, though. On the contrary, he's suspicious. He's over-jumpy and his cases seem to pop up from nowhere. He was the same the last time I played with him and he happened to be a lover that time. I wouldn't be surprised to find Farael guilty, either a werecreature or a lover.

It seems Lhuna is the only one right now I have a quite clear opinion about. She seems quite innocent.

Holby's vote worries me too. She did not voice any suspicion of Menel before voting and she did not seem to be having a strong suspicion of him. Her vote seems joining a bandwagon for the sake of joining a bandwagon and that definately is not very innocent behaviour.

And that post of Nogrod's...

As I said, I have no objection, on the basis of what I know this far, for Farael to be lynched. I'm not going to die with him. This is a question of basic tactics.

I think he just said that he does not have anything special against lynching Farael since he was not Farael's lover.

And I've asked Di, Fin's a he.

EDIT: xed with Mac

[Fintaeph]

Hi all,

Well, that was quite the first Day/Night. :-|

Let me say, first, that I'm winding up an all-nighter for my RL job, so please excuse me if I'm not entirely coherent.

In answer to the four people who've questioned my late vote for Menel last night, I can really only say what I said then: I had no really strong suspicion of anyone, though my attentions were focussed on Farael and Menel. I read the entire log four times before voting. The only thing that really stuck out was how Menel kept demanding to know why mormegil suspected him, even after morm voted for someone else. That felt decidedly odd. Many of you referred to your past experiences with each other when making your decisions. Bear in mind that I have no such past experiences to draw on. I made the best choice I could with the information I had available to me. To be honest, I didn't really count the votes for and against when I voted -- I figured I should make my choice for my own reasons.

Obviously that choice was wrong. But seven of us -- nearly half the village -- made the same choice. Please do not single me out merely because I was last.

In terms of the evening's events, I'm glad that at least one pair is dead. The odds are even now, when voting, that we'll pick an enemy over a friend. That's better odds than yesterday, at least, though perhaps that is not a happy thing. The better news it the werecreatures now have a 4 in 9 chance of killing each other tonight, if we are unable to lynch a pair today.

Today, I will be taking a closer look at Farael. Things didn't seem to add up, yesterday, but as Lhuna pointed out, 4 people who suspected him are among the dead. That seems kind of high, given that only 4 people voted for him. Yes, I'm aware he could only have been involved with one death. Still, he has had a stroke of good luck.

The only other person I currently have any suspicions of is Valier, and that only for the very flimsy "he that smelt it, dealt it" reason: she was first to post this morning, which could indicate she was hanging around from the Night. As I said, pretty flimsy.

In any event, I have to be back at my RL job in 3 hours, so I'd best get some sleep. Hopefully, I'll be more coherent (and still alive) when I check in here tomorrow.

And Menel, if you're reading: I'm sorry.

G'Day, all . . . .

[Macalaure]

Reading the thread back and forth (since not much else is happening), here are my thoughts of the moment.

probably innocent:
Kath - only one post so far, but that one looks good.
Lhuna - helpful and reasonable today.
Fintaeph - I buy his explanation for his vote.
Durelin - I liked her approach yesterday, good points.

unsure:
Farael - I can't believe a lover would act like he did yesterday. I need to hear of him today before I can read him.
Lommy - I can't put the finger on it, but I'm getting a bad hunch about her.
Jenny - need to hear more of her.
morm - still can't read him. Tough nut to crack.
Rikae - still hasn't posted.

suspicious:
Valier - her vote yesterday was strange. Did nothing to relieve my bad feeling.
Holby - nothing substantial from her. Suspicious vote.


If my unsuspicious villagers are all innocents (which is unlikely, of course), then there's only one innocent in the unsure group. I could live with a lynching of any of them and my suspicious ones just because the chances are that good. I need more input from the five.

One thing I just wondered about is why Lommy is so sure about Lhuna's innocence. Not that I disagree with it, but why does she point it out so explicitly? Lovers? Don't think so, too eye-catching. Maybe a lover preparing the scene for the safe kill of somebody who is assumed to be innocent by most?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mac

Lommy - I can't put the finger on it, but I'm getting a bad hunch about her.

Hahaha, if I were you I wouldn't trust your hunches about me, remembering the last game...

One thing I just wondered about is why Lommy is so sure about Lhuna's innocence. Not that I disagree with it, but why does she point it out so explicitly? Lovers? Don't think so, too eye-catching. Maybe a lover preparing the scene for the safe kill of somebody who is assumed to be innocent by most?

She just happens to be the only one I feel more innocent than "unsure" or "suspicious".

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Lhuna

why didn't he stick to his suspicion of Holby and voted for her?

Quite simple, my dear... as someone mentioned, self-preservation.

Ohhh but Menel was dead already anyway! Check the time stamp of my post and that of Diamond's.... I suddenly remembered that it was time to cast my vote, read through the other posts (ok, I'll admit it, the other VOTES) quickly and without counting them I saw that my only chance to survive was Menel's death. I voted for him, hoping that my vote would be enough. As it turns out, it was overkill

Alas, 'tis a sad proposition for it obviously makes me look more suspicious, yet I hope you forgive my Day 1 hooplabloopla and listen to me now that I actually have something to say.

We all know that, specially on Day 1's, I come out with my own little theories and stick with them even if it costs me my neck. But how about now? Holby was, at first, somewhat vocal... then I started leveling some (slightly random, I'll admit, but not completely unfounded) accusations and she said nothing other than an ill-explained vote. I'll take all the blame you want for my vote for Menel but keep in mind that, while I do not fear being called to the halls of Mandos, it is not something I WANT to do. What's her word on her vote?

And let me start another accusation on flimsy grounds that will cost my neck for sure. Yes, I know he has expressed doubts about me, but does anyone else find morm being alive slightly curious? Unless we are dealing with a group of werecreatures that have never played with him before, out of FOUR kills, no-one thought of getting rid of that mormegil? he's a danger to them if he is an ordo, and he's even more perilious as a lover or a werething.

Yet I'm not going to say "lynch him because he survived"... just keep an eye on him.

Overall, I still find Holby the most suspicious. I shall vote for her today, unless my neck is, again, on the line or if there seems to be a tie between two other people.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, it is likely that I shall cast my vote early today, for I have a.... erm.... thing (lab at University)... until 9 30, which means that if it runs late I would miss voting as a whole. And even if I managed to get to a computer by 9 30, I wouldn't have time to read everything. On the other hand, maybe I'll take my chances, or I'll show up to vote in between the two labs... erm I mean things I have today.

[Holbytlass]

As for my vote, despite Fareal's odd attack against me , afterall he is a mad elf, he didn't seem too worrisome and he already had 4 votes. I didn't want to join the bandwagon. The votes were already spread so wide, at the moment of deciding who to vote for Morm's points about Menel seemed as realistic as it could get being first day. I was assuming to be only the 2nd vote but cross-posted with Naria and Nogrod putting Menel tied with Fareal. It was Kittana's (deceased and innocent) vote that broke the tie with Fintaeg's and Fareal's vote putting him in the lead.

However, even that leads to almost nowhere because there were others who could've voted and changed things. Sheesh, I'm at a loss. Going to go back through threads....

[JennyHallu]

OK, so we're definitely seeing a strong Farael vs. Morm dynamic. Unfortunately we must remember that our usual ways of seeing the world are rather messy in this game. They could both be deluded innocents, they could be one and the other, they could both be evil yet opposed, they could even be secret allies. *sigh* I sense a headache.

The points that have been made against Holby make a lot of sense to me. I'm used to seeing her much more helpful and clear...but we've seen only a day one, and I know several of us were taken a bit by surprise by the start of the game. I'd like to hear more from her.

I"m going to do some work and then read through some of yesterday's posts. Hopefully I'll have some stronger feelings later, because right now I just feel like we're groping in the dark.

EDIT: X'd with Holby...

[Farael]

Let me insist here....

I better be very vocal now that I can, since I'm on the spotlight anyway and I will have to undergo a forced silence soon enough.

While I don't expect people to toss out accusations as strongly and sternly as I do on every post (heck, that'd ruin my lovely Farael style of werewolfing!) Does anyone else find it suspicious that Holby only posted to defend her vote? That's all she said. (Praphrasing) Look, I'm innocent... and confused, so I'm not going to add anything to the discussion

I can understand why someone would like to think before they post. I know, I don't always do it, but SOME people may want to. Yet what's the point of posting ONLY to say "I'm innocent"? I don't believe her anyway, and anyone else who does should be shot.

What? guns aren't invented yet? ok, smacked with a palantir.

No, not because I am the almighty watcher and I know things for sure... that was Nogrod and sadly he is no longer among us... but rather, because ANYONE who believes what another of us says ought to have "inside information"... and with Nogrod being dead, the only way to have inside info is...

So, I say, am I suspicious? well, maybe I'm too outspoken for my own good... but then, isn't it a proven werethingish tactic to fly under the radar? make some inocuous posts so that everyone will say "well, I have nothing to go on with her... that's suspicious, but not suspicious enough to lynch her".

I stand by my words, if Holby is trully innocent, why is she silent now after coming up with an (I know, jesting) list on the first few hours of the game? I think she's trying to fly under the radar..... well, perhaps when I go down in flames I shall bring her down with me.

NO! Not a lover's hint, which would be rather stupid, I mean that once I'm proven innocent beyond doubt (and beyond the seas to Valinor where Mandos' halls are) I hope you'll see my wisdom.

Or it may not even come to that. Lynch her before me!

Edit: Just to clarify my poor English... when I say "anyone who believes what another says" means "anyone who believes what another says without questioning whether s/he may actually be playing for the other team".

I wasn't sure I was getting my message across properly.

[JennyHallu]

Farael, you're forgetting a major point. Not even the evil know who their enemies are, and which might have the power to kill them in the night. The day is not over, Holby still has plenty of time to write more posts...not everyone likes to mix defensive and offensive statements. I separate them whenever I can, just for clarity's sake. You're getting a little out of hand, Farael, and making me nervous. This is just how you acted as Kath's lover (previous game, Fin...don't feel overwhelmed at all our "inside" information...I really value your viewpoint, because you're not hampered by our preconceptions of eachother. I still think you might be evil though )

[Kath]

Lhuna's Lover Jenny not mine, he was just trying to get me killed.

Now, to this Farael/Holby battle. I have seen this style of playing before from Farael and it does give me cause for concern, but I have not seen this style of playing before from Holby and that also worries me.

However, everybody here knows that the only way we can find out the truth is if they are lynched during the Day or killed at Night. Unfortunately, if they both turn out to be innocents, and it's possible, we're totally screwed. Even if Farael were the WereBird's lover and Holby the WereHamster or whatever we've actually got coming after us, there are still 4 other candidates out there.

We need not to get lost in pointless battles and this really is one. If we don't check it, it will turn into a feud with some on one side, some on another and some just trying to stay out of it. Other possibilities will be overlooked and it won't be good for us at all.

By all means we need to keep an eye on these two, but not to the exclusion of everyone else. Personally I would like to see Farael calm down. It is quite possible you don't realise it Farael but the tone you are using is causing everyone to bristle. A few susbstantial posts from Holby would be nice too so that we can actually get a feel for her.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you for your correction. I knew Lhuna was involved and for some reason mentally reversed you two.

And an excellent point. I think I'll take a good long look at someone being mostly ignored...if I find anything that'll be cool, but mostly I want to make sure every name stays in the debate.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Farael

And let me start another accusation on flimsy grounds that will cost my neck for sure. Yes, I know he has expressed doubts about me, but does anyone else find morm being alive slightly curious? Unless we are dealing with a group of werecreatures that have never played with him before, out of FOUR kills, no-one thought of getting rid of that mormegil? he's a danger to them if he is an ordo, and he's even more perilious as a lover or a werething.

Yet I'm not going to say "lynch him because he survived"... just keep an eye on him.

I'm not all the way caught up but this caught my eye.

Okay, this makes me even more concerned about Farael. Allow me to explain, this is a very intelligent thing to do as a were-creature. Think about it! Farael has the power to kill anybody he wanted last night...or at least influence it as a lover but I suspect that he is the actual were-creature, and yet he's 'wondering' why I'm still alive. Perfect way to get rid of me without actually doing the job plus it will help distance himself from seeming guilty if/when I die.

[Holbytlass]

Farael
Fintaeph
Morm

Durelin
Holby
JennyHallu
Kath
Lhuna
Lommy
Mac
Rikae
Valier

As I was going through the thread looking for possible lover strategies when it occured to me that (assuming i have everyone's gender correct) there are more females than males.

I put out for discussion lynching the males first, it would take care of any female/male pairs and male/male pairs. Any innocent male would maybe consider this for the good of the village.

I'm not that good with numbers so I'm not sure if that would work with DAY/Night kills.

[Kath]

Umm, Holby I'm assuming you mean there are more females than males right?

I don't like to say much about the idea of lynching everyone from one gender. This isn't the first time such a plan has been suggested and it's always met with a lot of argument. In this case there are so few males left it might actually be viable, but I'd be loathe to lose morm if he's on our side, and I would for Fin to be able to play a while longer. I'm waiting to pass judgement on Farael, as I'm hoping he will calm down, but that said it is looking increasingly bad for him.

Thing is, if we go with a 'planed' lynch then everyone who takes part in it basically has a get out of jail free card. If they're pointed out for having voted for someone who it has been decided shall be lynched, all they need to say is that they were following the plan.

morm, yes I caught that from Farael as well. Problem is that it's a two-way street. He's right, the longer you're left alive the more suspicious you will look, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's the Werecreature keeping you alive, it could be any of them. And the same holds true whether you be innocent or guilty.