Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXV: All Star Crossed With Nowhere to Go - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Macalaure · 10-31-2006, 07:31 AM

Reading the thread back and forth (since not much else is happening), here are my thoughts of the moment.

probably innocent:
Kath - only one post so far, but that one looks good.
Lhuna - helpful and reasonable today.
Fintaeph - I buy his explanation for his vote.
Durelin - I liked her approach yesterday, good points.

unsure:
Farael - I can't believe a lover would act like he did yesterday. I need to hear of him today before I can read him.
Lommy - I can't put the finger on it, but I'm getting a bad hunch about her.
Jenny - need to hear more of her.
morm - still can't read him. Tough nut to crack.
Rikae - still hasn't posted.

suspicious:
Valier - her vote yesterday was strange. Did nothing to relieve my bad feeling.
Holby - nothing substantial from her. Suspicious vote.

If my unsuspicious villagers are all innocents (which is unlikely, of course), then there's only one innocent in the unsure group. I could live with a lynching of any of them and my suspicious ones just because the chances are that good. I need more input from the five.

One thing I just wondered about is why Lommy is so sure about Lhuna's innocence. Not that I disagree with it, but why does she point it out so explicitly? Lovers? Don't think so, too eye-catching. Maybe a lover preparing the scene for the safe kill of somebody who is assumed to be innocent by most?

Thinlómien · 10-31-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Lommy - I can't put the finger on it, but I'm getting a bad hunch about her.

Hahaha, if I were you I wouldn't trust your hunches about me, remembering the last game...

Quote:

One thing I just wondered about is why Lommy is so sure about Lhuna's innocence. Not that I disagree with it, but why does she point it out so explicitly? Lovers? Don't think so, too eye-catching. Maybe a lover preparing the scene for the safe kill of somebody who is assumed to be innocent by most?

She just happens to be the only one I feel more innocent than "unsure" or "suspicious".

Farael · 10-31-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lhuna

why didn't he stick to his suspicion of Holby and voted for her?

Quite simple, my dear... as someone mentioned, self-preservation.

Ohhh but Menel was dead already anyway! Check the time stamp of my post and that of Diamond's.... I suddenly remembered that it was time to cast my vote, read through the other posts (ok, I'll admit it, the other VOTES) quickly and without counting them I saw that my only chance to survive was Menel's death. I voted for him, hoping that my vote would be enough. As it turns out, it was overkill

Alas, 'tis a sad proposition for it obviously makes me look more suspicious, yet I hope you forgive my Day 1 hooplabloopla and listen to me now that I actually have something to say.

We all know that, specially on Day 1's, I come out with my own little theories and stick with them even if it costs me my neck. But how about now? Holby was, at first, somewhat vocal... then I started leveling some (slightly random, I'll admit, but not completely unfounded) accusations and she said nothing other than an ill-explained vote. I'll take all the blame you want for my vote for Menel but keep in mind that, while I do not fear being called to the halls of Mandos, it is not something I WANT to do. What's her word on her vote?

And let me start another accusation on flimsy grounds that will cost my neck for sure. Yes, I know he has expressed doubts about me, but does anyone else find morm being alive slightly curious? Unless we are dealing with a group of werecreatures that have never played with him before, out of FOUR kills, no-one thought of getting rid of that mormegil? he's a danger to them if he is an ordo, and he's even more perilious as a lover or a werething.

Yet I'm not going to say "lynch him because he survived"... just keep an eye on him.

Overall, I still find Holby the most suspicious. I shall vote for her today, unless my neck is, again, on the line or if there seems to be a tie between two other people.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, it is likely that I shall cast my vote early today, for I have a.... erm.... thing (lab at University)... until 9 30, which means that if it runs late I would miss voting as a whole. And even if I managed to get to a computer by 9 30, I wouldn't have time to read everything. On the other hand, maybe I'll take my chances, or I'll show up to vote in between the two labs... erm I mean things I have today.

Holbytlass · 10-31-2006, 07:56 AM

As for my vote, despite Fareal's odd attack against me , afterall he is a mad elf, he didn't seem too worrisome and he already had 4 votes. I didn't want to join the bandwagon. The votes were already spread so wide, at the moment of deciding who to vote for Morm's points about Menel seemed as realistic as it could get being first day. I was assuming to be only the 2nd vote but cross-posted with Naria and Nogrod putting Menel tied with Fareal. It was Kittana's (deceased and innocent) vote that broke the tie with Fintaeg's and Fareal's vote putting him in the lead.

However, even that leads to almost nowhere because there were others who could've voted and changed things. Sheesh, I'm at a loss. Going to go back through threads....

JennyHallu · 10-31-2006, 08:05 AM

OK, so we're definitely seeing a strong Farael vs. Morm dynamic. Unfortunately we must remember that our usual ways of seeing the world are rather messy in this game. They could both be deluded innocents, they could be one and the other, they could both be evil yet opposed, they could even be secret allies. *sigh* I sense a headache.

The points that have been made against Holby make a lot of sense to me. I'm used to seeing her much more helpful and clear...but we've seen only a day one, and I know several of us were taken a bit by surprise by the start of the game. I'd like to hear more from her.

I"m going to do some work and then read through some of yesterday's posts. Hopefully I'll have some stronger feelings later, because right now I just feel like we're groping in the dark.

EDIT: X'd with Holby...

Farael · 10-31-2006, 08:19 AM

Let me insist here....

I better be very vocal now that I can, since I'm on the spotlight anyway and I will have to undergo a forced silence soon enough.

While I don't expect people to toss out accusations as strongly and sternly as I do on every post (heck, that'd ruin my lovely Farael style of werewolfing!) Does anyone else find it suspicious that Holby only posted to defend her vote? That's all she said. (Praphrasing) Look, I'm innocent... and confused, so I'm not going to add anything to the discussion

I can understand why someone would like to think before they post. I know, I don't always do it, but SOME people may want to. Yet what's the point of posting ONLY to say "I'm innocent"? I don't believe her anyway, and anyone else who does should be shot.

What? guns aren't invented yet? ok, smacked with a palantir.

No, not because I am the almighty watcher and I know things for sure... that was Nogrod and sadly he is no longer among us... but rather, because ANYONE who believes what another of us says ought to have "inside information"... and with Nogrod being dead, the only way to have inside info is...

So, I say, am I suspicious? well, maybe I'm too outspoken for my own good... but then, isn't it a proven werethingish tactic to fly under the radar? make some inocuous posts so that everyone will say "well, I have nothing to go on with her... that's suspicious, but not suspicious enough to lynch her".

I stand by my words, if Holby is trully innocent, why is she silent now after coming up with an (I know, jesting) list on the first few hours of the game? I think she's trying to fly under the radar..... well, perhaps when I go down in flames I shall bring her down with me.

NO! Not a lover's hint, which would be rather stupid, I mean that once I'm proven innocent beyond doubt (and beyond the seas to Valinor where Mandos' halls are) I hope you'll see my wisdom.

Or it may not even come to that. Lynch her before me!

Edit: Just to clarify my poor English... when I say "anyone who believes what another says" means "anyone who believes what another says without questioning whether s/he may actually be playing for the other team".

I wasn't sure I was getting my message across properly.

JennyHallu · 10-31-2006, 08:32 AM

Farael, you're forgetting a major point. Not even the evil know who their enemies are, and which might have the power to kill them in the night. The day is not over, Holby still has plenty of time to write more posts...not everyone likes to mix defensive and offensive statements. I separate them whenever I can, just for clarity's sake. You're getting a little out of hand, Farael, and making me nervous. This is just how you acted as Kath's lover (previous game, Fin...don't feel overwhelmed at all our "inside" information...I really value your viewpoint, because you're not hampered by our preconceptions of eachother. I still think you might be evil though

)

Kath · 10-31-2006, 08:47 AM

Lhuna's Lover Jenny not mine, he was just trying to get me killed.

Now, to this Farael/Holby battle. I have seen this style of playing before from Farael and it does give me cause for concern, but I have not seen this style of playing before from Holby and that also worries me.

However, everybody here knows that the only way we can find out the truth is if they are lynched during the Day or killed at Night. Unfortunately, if they both turn out to be innocents, and it's possible, we're totally screwed. Even if Farael were the WereBird's lover and Holby the WereHamster or whatever we've actually got coming after us, there are still 4 other candidates out there.

We need not to get lost in pointless battles and this really is one. If we don't check it, it will turn into a feud with some on one side, some on another and some just trying to stay out of it. Other possibilities will be overlooked and it won't be good for us at all.

By all means we need to keep an eye on these two, but not to the exclusion of everyone else. Personally I would like to see Farael calm down. It is quite possible you don't realise it Farael but the tone you are using is causing everyone to bristle. A few susbstantial posts from Holby would be nice too so that we can actually get a feel for her.

JennyHallu · 10-31-2006, 08:55 AM

Thank you for your correction. I knew Lhuna was involved and for some reason mentally reversed you two.

And an excellent point. I think I'll take a good long look at someone being mostly ignored...if I find anything that'll be cool, but mostly I want to make sure every name stays in the debate.

mormegil · 10-31-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farael

And let me start another accusation on flimsy grounds that will cost my neck for sure. Yes, I know he has expressed doubts about me, but does anyone else find morm being alive slightly curious? Unless we are dealing with a group of werecreatures that have never played with him before, out of FOUR kills, no-one thought of getting rid of that mormegil? he's a danger to them if he is an ordo, and he's even more perilious as a lover or a werething.

Yet I'm not going to say "lynch him because he survived"... just keep an eye on him.

I'm not all the way caught up but this caught my eye.

Okay, this makes me even more concerned about Farael. Allow me to explain, this is a very intelligent thing to do as a were-creature. Think about it! Farael has the power to kill anybody he wanted last night...or at least influence it as a lover but I suspect that he is the actual were-creature, and yet he's 'wondering' why I'm still alive. Perfect way to get rid of me without actually doing the job plus it will help distance himself from seeming guilty if/when I die.

Holbytlass · 10-31-2006, 09:09 AM

Farael
Fintaeph
Morm

Durelin
Holby
JennyHallu
Kath
Lhuna
Lommy
Mac
Rikae
Valier

As I was going through the thread looking for possible lover strategies when it occured to me that (assuming i have everyone's gender correct) there are more females than males.

I put out for discussion lynching the males first, it would take care of any female/male pairs and male/male pairs. Any innocent male would maybe consider this for the good of the village.

I'm not that good with numbers so I'm not sure if that would work with DAY/Night kills.

JennyHallu · 10-31-2006, 09:24 AM

Macalaure...

#10

Mac was certainly not the first person to post, nor the last. Nothing seems odd to me about his post placement.

This post seems mostly noncommital. He discusses possibilities for the behavior of the were-creatures and their lovers, but concludes with two widely disparate theories, and doesn't put more weight on either. He says not to look for pairs on the early days, but brings up the possibility that it will be more useful later. He bemoans Lhuna's random vote, but says he'll let it pass.

I think it is safe to say that we are looking at the post of a careful player, but it doesn't really point to what role he might have.

Reactions to this post:
Naria (WERECAT)- doesn't like an "if" post to be a day one/first post. Thinks it looks shady. The beauty of hindsight...now this response looks shady itself. A careful poster, a cautious poster, these things Mac certainly was, but an "if" poster? I don't see it.
Lommy - agrees with Naria, votes Mac. Says she dislikes the fact that his post is from the were-creature's POV.
Nogrod (WATCHER)- mentions it raises questions, doesn't really add anything.

#29

Asks, rhetorically, what is so suspicious about trying to see the werecreatures' point of view. Mentions suspicion of Farael, for questioning things Mac finds trivial, and suspicion of Rune for being overly aggressive in attacking Farael.

Again, seems to be a careful post...short and to the point, unlike Mac's usual eloquence. But again, nothing seems really suspicious, except that I would have protested more to three people thinking I was suspicious. That might just be me, I tend to be really defensive, but it's a thought.

Reactions:
Nogrod (WATCHER) - backs off his suspicion of Mac a little...well, he says he's uncomfortable with his reasons for that suspicion.

#35

Votes for Rune, to widen the field. Still doesn't say much.

Reactions:
arcticstorm (WERECAT LOVER)- asks Mac to elaborate on why he finds Rune suspicious, says he does not.

Mac does not show up again for the remainder of the day, which doesn't really worry me, as he's already voted.

I'll come back later, and may or may not continue with Mac's posts. Depends. I will say that I feel better about how vocal he is today compared to yesterday.

10-31-2006, 07:56 AM	#4
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	As for my vote, despite Fareal's odd attack against me , afterall he is a mad elf, he didn't seem too worrisome and he already had 4 votes. I didn't want to join the bandwagon. The votes were already spread so wide, at the moment of deciding who to vote for Morm's points about Menel seemed as realistic as it could get being first day. I was assuming to be only the 2nd vote but cross-posted with Naria and Nogrod putting Menel tied with Fareal. It was Kittana's (deceased and innocent) vote that broke the tie with Fintaeg's and Fareal's vote putting him in the lead. However, even that leads to almost nowhere because there were others who could've voted and changed things. Sheesh, I'm at a loss. Going to go back through threads.... __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

10-31-2006, 08:05 AM	#5
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	OK, so we're definitely seeing a strong Farael vs. Morm dynamic. Unfortunately we must remember that our usual ways of seeing the world are rather messy in this game. They could both be deluded innocents, they could be one and the other, they could both be evil yet opposed, they could even be secret allies. sigh I sense a headache. The points that have been made against Holby make a lot of sense to me. I'm used to seeing her much more helpful and clear...but we've seen only a day one, and I know several of us were taken a bit by surprise by the start of the game. I'd like to hear more from her. I"m going to do some work and then read through some of yesterday's posts. Hopefully I'll have some stronger feelings later, because right now I just feel like we're groping in the dark. EDIT: X'd with Holby... __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-31-2006, 08:19 AM	#6
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	Let me insist here.... I better be very vocal now that I can, since I'm on the spotlight anyway and I will have to undergo a forced silence soon enough. While I don't expect people to toss out accusations as strongly and sternly as I do on every post (heck, that'd ruin my lovely Farael style of werewolfing!) Does anyone else find it suspicious that Holby only posted to defend her vote? That's all she said. (Praphrasing) Look, I'm innocent... and confused, so I'm not going to add anything to the discussion I can understand why someone would like to think before they post. I know, I don't always do it, but SOME people may want to. Yet what's the point of posting ONLY to say "I'm innocent"? I don't believe her anyway, and anyone else who does should be shot. What? guns aren't invented yet? ok, smacked with a palantir. No, not because I am the almighty watcher and I know things for sure... that was Nogrod and sadly he is no longer among us... but rather, because ANYONE who believes what another of us says ought to have "inside information"... and with Nogrod being dead, the only way to have inside info is... So, I say, am I suspicious? well, maybe I'm too outspoken for my own good... but then, isn't it a proven werethingish tactic to fly under the radar? make some inocuous posts so that everyone will say "well, I have nothing to go on with her... that's suspicious, but not suspicious enough to lynch her". I stand by my words, if Holby is trully innocent, why is she silent now after coming up with an (I know, jesting) list on the first few hours of the game? I think she's trying to fly under the radar..... well, perhaps when I go down in flames I shall bring her down with me. NO! Not a lover's hint, which would be rather stupid, I mean that once I'm proven innocent beyond doubt (and beyond the seas to Valinor where Mandos' halls are) I hope you'll see my wisdom. Or it may not even come to that. Lynch her before me! Edit: Just to clarify my poor English... when I say "anyone who believes what another says" means "anyone who believes what another says without questioning whether s/he may actually be playing for the other team". I wasn't sure I was getting my message across properly. __________________ I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

10-31-2006, 08:32 AM	#7
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Farael, you're forgetting a major point. Not even the evil know who their enemies are, and which might have the power to kill them in the night. The day is not over, Holby still has plenty of time to write more posts...not everyone likes to mix defensive and offensive statements. I separate them whenever I can, just for clarity's sake. You're getting a little out of hand, Farael, and making me nervous. This is just how you acted as Kath's lover (previous game, Fin...don't feel overwhelmed at all our "inside" information...I really value your viewpoint, because you're not hampered by our preconceptions of eachother. I still think you might be evil though ) __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-31-2006, 08:47 AM	#8
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Lhuna's Lover Jenny not mine, he was just trying to get me killed. Now, to this Farael/Holby battle. I have seen this style of playing before from Farael and it does give me cause for concern, but I have not seen this style of playing before from Holby and that also worries me. However, everybody here knows that the only way we can find out the truth is if they are lynched during the Day or killed at Night. Unfortunately, if they both turn out to be innocents, and it's possible, we're totally screwed. Even if Farael were the WereBird's lover and Holby the WereHamster or whatever we've actually got coming after us, there are still 4 other candidates out there. We need not to get lost in pointless battles and this really is one. If we don't check it, it will turn into a feud with some on one side, some on another and some just trying to stay out of it. Other possibilities will be overlooked and it won't be good for us at all. By all means we need to keep an eye on these two, but not to the exclusion of everyone else. Personally I would like to see Farael calm down. It is quite possible you don't realise it Farael but the tone you are using is causing everyone to bristle. A few susbstantial posts from Holby would be nice too so that we can actually get a feel for her. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

10-31-2006, 07:31 AM	#1
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Reading the thread back and forth (since not much else is happening), here are my thoughts of the moment. probably innocent: Kath - only one post so far, but that one looks good. Lhuna - helpful and reasonable today. Fintaeph - I buy his explanation for his vote. Durelin - I liked her approach yesterday, good points. unsure: Farael - I can't believe a lover would act like he did yesterday. I need to hear of him today before I can read him. Lommy - I can't put the finger on it, but I'm getting a bad hunch about her. Jenny - need to hear more of her. morm - still can't read him. Tough nut to crack. Rikae - still hasn't posted. suspicious: Valier - her vote yesterday was strange. Did nothing to relieve my bad feeling. Holby - nothing substantial from her. Suspicious vote. If my unsuspicious villagers are all innocents (which is unlikely, of course), then there's only one innocent in the unsure group. I could live with a lynching of any of them and my suspicious ones just because the chances are that good. I need more input from the five. One thing I just wondered about is why Lommy is so sure about Lhuna's innocence. Not that I disagree with it, but why does she point it out so explicitly? Lovers? Don't think so, too eye-catching. Maybe a lover preparing the scene for the safe kill of somebody who is assumed to be innocent by most?

10-31-2006, 08:55 AM	#9
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Thank you for your correction. I knew Lhuna was involved and for some reason mentally reversed you two. And an excellent point. I think I'll take a good long look at someone being mostly ignored...if I find anything that'll be cool, but mostly I want to make sure every name stays in the debate. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-31-2006, 09:09 AM	#11
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	Farael Fintaeph Morm Durelin Holby JennyHallu Kath Lhuna Lommy Mac Rikae Valier As I was going through the thread looking for possible lover strategies when it occured to me that (assuming i have everyone's gender correct) there are more females than males. I put out for discussion lynching the males first, it would take care of any female/male pairs and male/male pairs. Any innocent male would maybe consider this for the good of the village. I'm not that good with numbers so I'm not sure if that would work with DAY/Night kills. __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII Last edited by Holbytlass; 10-31-2006 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Duh: more females than males

10-31-2006, 09:24 AM	#12
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Macalaure... #10 Mac was certainly not the first person to post, nor the last. Nothing seems odd to me about his post placement. This post seems mostly noncommital. He discusses possibilities for the behavior of the were-creatures and their lovers, but concludes with two widely disparate theories, and doesn't put more weight on either. He says not to look for pairs on the early days, but brings up the possibility that it will be more useful later. He bemoans Lhuna's random vote, but says he'll let it pass. I think it is safe to say that we are looking at the post of a careful player, but it doesn't really point to what role he might have. Reactions to this post: Naria (WERECAT)- doesn't like an "if" post to be a day one/first post. Thinks it looks shady. The beauty of hindsight...now this response looks shady itself. A careful poster, a cautious poster, these things Mac certainly was, but an "if" poster? I don't see it. Lommy - agrees with Naria, votes Mac. Says she dislikes the fact that his post is from the were-creature's POV. Nogrod (WATCHER)- mentions it raises questions, doesn't really add anything. #29 Asks, rhetorically, what is so suspicious about trying to see the werecreatures' point of view. Mentions suspicion of Farael, for questioning things Mac finds trivial, and suspicion of Rune for being overly aggressive in attacking Farael. Again, seems to be a careful post...short and to the point, unlike Mac's usual eloquence. But again, nothing seems really suspicious, except that I would have protested more to three people thinking I was suspicious. That might just be me, I tend to be really defensive, but it's a thought. Reactions: Nogrod (WATCHER) - backs off his suspicion of Mac a little...well, he says he's uncomfortable with his reasons for that suspicion. #35 Votes for Rune, to widen the field. Still doesn't say much. Reactions: arcticstorm (WERECAT LOVER)- asks Mac to elaborate on why he finds Rune suspicious, says he does not. Mac does not show up again for the remainder of the day, which doesn't really worry me, as he's already voted. I'll come back later, and may or may not continue with Mac's posts. Depends. I will say that I feel better about how vocal he is today compared to yesterday. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

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