I just don't understand.

[Boromir88]

Fordim to add to your list there:

FOTR:

'Something draws near. I can feel it!'

TTT:

'They run as if the very whips of their masters were behind them.'

'He was twitching!' (but I admit worse is what Gimli says afterwards).

ROTK:

(during the infamous drinking scene)...'I feel something. I slight tingle in my fingers. I think it's affecting me.'

'The stars are veiled. Something stirs in the East. A sleepless malice. The eye of the enemy is moving. He is here!'

'The horses are restless, and the Men are quiet.'

[alatar]

Reading the quotes, I'm starting to wonder if William Shatner, of Captain Kirk fame, was the dialogue ghost-writer.

I'm too old to be concerned about 'fan-girls', and I have three of my own, so my dislike for the PJ Legolas character is not from jealousy. It's just another character on a list that weren't used to their maximal effect. PJ could have done more with Legolas, but as the movies progressed, decided that it was easier on the audiences' brains to expect 'one thing' from the elf prince. See Legolas = over-the-top stunt. Make that two things - See Legolas = straight man for Gimli to play off of.

I like Legolas when he's in the boat in FotR listening to Gimli recount getting a gift from Galadriel. Also, though the elf's fighting is fine, again, by the time we reach RotK, there's nothing much more this character does.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Reading the quotes, I'm starting to wonder if William Shatner, of Captain Kirk fame, was the dialogue ghost-writer.

Well, Shatner has won a few Emmys lately. Does that mean there is hope for Bloom?

Originally Posted by alatar

I'm too old to be concerned about 'fan-girls', and I have three of my own, so my dislike for the PJ Legolas character is not from jealousy.

Hmm. Hmm. Are you sure about that? Not even the tiniest bit? Maybe your age makes you wish you had hair like him and not the receding variety which fatherhood usually brings?

There used to be guys on BD who thought Legobloom inspired everyone to become hairdressers. Yes.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, Shatner has one a few Emmys lately. Does that mean there is hope for Bloom?

If only every actor could have a career so 'legendary.'

Hmm. Hmm. Are you sure about that? Not even the tiniest bit? Maybe your age makes you wish you had hair like him and not the receding variety which fatherhood usually brings?

Hah! I've anticipated your question . Look at the attached picture of my 'fangirls.' Note the one that is riding on her father's shoulders as he walks uphill carrying her sister. Note how said child uses dad's hair as both a way to maintain her perch and a way to guide said dad. Note hair...

No matter how much they tug, and how many times a day I pull some out, still, it remains (note that, in exchange for non-receding hair I had to give up short-term memory, optimism and congeniality).

And exactly what is a "fan girl?" I assume that we're talking about admirers of the fairer gender of a specific age group? Truly, I am too old and tired to care about the hysteria of those that could be my children. My fangirls greet me like a Hollywood star when I return from work, and also scream when I tell them that cookies are not on the breakfast menu, and so I don't think that Orlando has anything on me there. I do concede that I cannot surf, and I'm at the age where skateboarding is starting to scare me. And, extrapolating, I think that hopping off an oliphaunt would kill my back.

...

What was the question again?

There used to be guys on BD who thought Legobloom inspired everyone to become hairdressers. Yes.

Huh?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Hah! I've anticipated your question . Look at the attached picture of my 'fangirls.' Note the one that is riding on her father's shoulders as he walks uphill carrying her sister. Note how said child uses dad's hair as both a way to maintain her perch and a way to guide said dad. Note hair...

No matter how much they tug, and how many times a day I pull some out, still, it remains (note that, in exchange for non-receding hair I had to give up short-term memory, optimism and congeniality).

Pre-cise-ly! It's that bald patch on the top, then. A braid to pull the sides up to cover it.

Originally Posted by alatar

Huh?

I keep forgetting that you New Order Mods probably don't know the heyday of REB, the infamous rpg Return of the Entish Bow and Revenge of the Entish Bow. It's probably a good thing many fangirls didn't read it, as what was done to Movie Legolas might have turned them into death-threatening maenads. We would have had letters from The Society for the Prevention of Cruel Stereotypes Towards Hair Stylists as well.

Originally Posted by alatar

What was the question?

Folwren, I think movie Elrond also came in for his share of jibes. Perhaps PJ had difficulty integrating Tolkien's concept of male elf with his action man perspective?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Pre-cise-ly! It's that bald patch on the top, then. A braid to pull the sides up to cover it.

Ah, another sign of age, ma'am, is the gradual loss of acuity. One might take a closer look at said picture to note that, just like on Orlando's bean, there is no recession there, whether sides or top. If you're looking for Amon Rûdh, you have a better chance with a map. And, speaking of acuity, I would also note that as one gets older, mental acuity too feels the effects of time (read my posts if you're not sure). Maybe this is why, in the movie, Elrond drones on and on about the Battle of the Last Alliance and what that 'man' Isildur didn't do, so many years hence - few know now what he's even talking about. Legolas, in contrast, keeps his monologuing to a sentence or two. That being said...

I keep forgetting that you New Order Mods probably don't know the heyday of REB, the infamous rpg Return of the Entish Bow and Revenge of the Entish Bow. It's probably a good thing many fangirls didn't read it, as what was done to Movie Legolas might have turned them into death-threatening maenads. We would have had letters from The Society for the Prevention of Cruel Stereotypes Towards Hair Stylists as well.

Clear as mud.

Originally Posted by Imladris

as I've said -- translating a book to a movie doesn't work. There are bookish elements and there are movie elements and the elves, I think, are decidedly bookish.

Can't say that I agree. The elves could have been portrayed better. Legolas became a one-note assassin, and the elves at Helm's Deep were just cannon fodder. Lothlorien was too brief and too dark. We could have learned more about the elves via Legolas or Arwen as (1) we got to know these characters through the 12+ hours of the movie, and (2) PJ could have, using Gimli and Aragorn respectively, shown us why the elves were different. There were scenes that could have been cut to make time for an elf mini-micro-documentary. Just a few moments, now and then, to show how Legolas or Arwen viewed this Middle Earth.

Don't hate them because they are beautiful...

[Imladris]

Don't hate them because they are beautiful...

I hadn't meant to imply that, because I do love the elves both book and movie (gasp) form.

Legolas became a one-note assassin

And in the book he was....what? Cardboard? That guy over there who's hair colour is in question? I've read the book many times, I don't feel aquainted with Legolas at all, except as one of the nine.

His stunts in the movie were over the top, yet I hardly think that makes him deserving of the title assasin. Legolas killed people in the book too and he did it well.

Lothlorien was too brief and too dark.

I always thought this was harkening back to the fact that the time of the elves was over as they left into the west...

Brief? The Fellowship didn't do anything in Lothlorien besides rest and the mirror scene with Frodo which I am still iffy about how it was portrayed in the movie. But, you must admit, resting and regaining strength is hardly movie material. In movie form, it's a snore fest.

We could have learned more about the elves via Legolas or Arwen as (1) we got to know these characters through the 12+ hours of the movie, and (2) PJ could have, using Gimli and Aragorn respectively, shown us why the elves were different. There were scenes that could have been cut to make time for an elf mini-micro-documentary. Just a few moments, now and then, to show how Legolas or Arwen viewed this Middle Earth.

Much as I love the elves, the story is of Frodo and the Ring and the other nine are not about them. In an already complicated story with multitudes of characters, I don't think it would have...worked...to do what you suggest...though I am wondering if you could provide an example of what you mean?

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

FOTR:

'Something draws near. I can feel it!'

TTT:

'They run as if the very whips of their master's will were behind them.'

ROTK:

'The stars are veiled. Something stirs in the East. A sleepless malice. The eye of the enemy is moving. He is here!'

'The horses are restless, and the Men are quiet.'

*grumbles* These are elf-like quotes, thanks much.

Really, would you all have liked him better if he had had the quotes from the book?

FOTR:

'Well, I have not brought the Sun. She is walking in the blue fields of the South.'

'A plague on the Dwarves and their stiff necks!'

I'm not going to search for any others...I've not read the books in a long time and don't remember Legolas' quotes readily.

He made a good elf, I think...except for a few of his stunts, but not even many of those were ridiculous. Alright, yes, some of his lines were laughable, but that's not his fault...and it's not even for his lines that he's made fun of so often.

-- Folwren

[Macalaure]

a definite YES!

I'd give a little finger if he said "Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us, but they are gone." or "It is old, very old. So old that almost I feel young again, as I have not felt since I journeyed with you children." or only "Do not spoil the wonder with haste."

Well, maybe a fingernail.

[Folwren]

Well, yes, of course his lines in the book are better, but there are laughable lines in the book as well, if put on screen. It was a question that was almost sarcasm but not quite.

-- Folwren

[Macalaure]

I know you meant your question ironic. The lines are laughable indeed - but only if put out of context. If said in the same context as in the book, they would fit as perfectly on screen as on paper. I mean, even the two quotes you gave ironically are from two of the most funny scenes of the whole LotR.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I mean, even the two quotes you gave ironically are from two of the most funny scenes of the whole LotR.

Yes, I know. I loved both those parts! Have you ever read the part of Caradras (sp) as is written in the book The Treason of Isengard? It's absolutely hilarious!!! Gandalf is SO grumpy and Legolas is so funny!

Originally Posted by Bethberry

Folwren, I think movie Elrond also came in for his share of jibes. Perhaps PJ had difficulty integrating Tolkien's concept of male elf with his action man perspective?

Well, I haven't heard as many. I think Elrond was pretty cool, too...besides the fact that he was so grumpy and kept trying to talk Arwen into breakingher promise.

-- Folwren

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Folwren, I think movie Elrond also came in for his share of jibes. Perhaps PJ had difficulty integrating Tolkien's concept of male elf with his action man perspective?

Hmm...shouldn't we be adding Haldir and Celeborn to the list? And Haldir's company of androgynous Elves in film FotR?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Macalaure quoting Legolas

"Do not spoil the wonder with haste."

That is a wonderful line, one of my personal favourites, but can you imagine Peter Jackson, with his rather "hasty" personality, embracing that philosophy in today's society of instant gratification?! I think he did not have a fundamental understanding of the Elves and if you don't grasp something yourself, you can't make others understand it.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

That is a wonderful line, one of my personal favourites, but can you imagine Peter Jackson, with his rather "hasty" personality, embracing that philosophy in today's society of instant gratification?! I think he did not have a fundamental understanding of the Elves and if you don't grasp something yourself, you can't make others understand it.

That is true. I had not considered that. Do you suppose that if he had had some understanding of the elves he could have, without making the movie longer, made the elves more acceptable to the audience? That is...portray so that even the non-LotR readers would understand what they were? (Other than the perfect appearance character who says very little....)

Still, I've met some people who don't think he was badly done. For instance, one boy I know, he's 12, I think, has read the book and seen the movies and he says that Legolas is his favorite character in both the books and movies. Now, you can't say that he only likes him because he looks good, because this particular boy is part of a family who's all for very masculine boys and men and despises whimpy males, and probably doesn't care two cents about how they look.

So, to some people, maybe he was portrayed correctly....

-- Folwren

[Imladris]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

That is a wonderful line, one of my personal favourites, but can you imagine Peter Jackson, with his rather "hasty" personality, embracing that philosophy in today's society of instant gratification?! I think he did not have a fundamental understanding of the Elves and if you don't grasp something yourself, you can't make others understand it.

To elaborate more on this point, can you have an "ent like" personality/philosophy when filming a movie? No, you can't.

There is only so much money.

There is only so much time to film the story. Deadlines are dreadful things (or so I'm told, I haven't really experienced them yet).

And you have to catch the audiences attention. Some people were complaining that the theatrical release was "too long." The Entertainment business is about pleasing people so that they will dish out money and buy your product. You have to make a profit in the business...so you have to make your product appealing to everyone -- not just the nerds but the fan girls and the people who want a few hours entertainment, etc.

as I've said -- translating a book to a movie doesn't work. There are bookish elements and there are movie elements and the elves, I think, are decidedly bookish.

Edit:

On a completely different note:

I wonder who will play the elves in The Hobbit Movie. I really hope it's not a ''handsome'' actor, because it just brings the spirit of Tolkien down. People will only go to the movie because people will say: '' Have you already seen that Elf in The Hobbit? He is SO hot, you got to watch it!''
Tolkien can't be forgotten...

Should we not have beautiful music or beautiful scenery or beautiful cinema so that people won't watch the movie for its aesthetic qualities?

No. Of course not.

We should be able to appreciate beauty in all it's shapes, including hot males.

Why should the movie director or whoever chooses the casting not choose a "hot" person to play an elf (who are beautiful people, by the way) because of what a few immature girls will say?