Silmarillion - Valaquenta

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Strangely enough, the other name that comes to my mind when I think of "love" is Nienna. It almost seems as if Tolkien often equates "love" with "tears" -- that pure grieving is one of the truest forms of love we can experience in a world that is so flawed. (Ok....I can't help thinking of his own childhood here.)
. . .

It's so interesting to me that two of the most important themes of LotR--pity and hope--make their appearance here in the form of Nienna, long before Frodo and Sam (perhaps each the flawed but very human embodiment of one of these?) are even a glint on the horizon.

I also love this intriguing phrase: "The windows of her house look outward from the walls of the world." Presumably that hints at the fact that, ultimately, there must be some form of help (perhaps some form of love itself??) that comes from beyond the world. Or is there another possible meaning for this?

What is missing, however, is erotic love....unless you assume that this element lies hidden within Varda and Manwe but is decently concealed from outside eyes.

Tolkien's pantheon of gods is so very different from the Greek and Roman ones--all the scrabbling, self indulgence, vanity, competition, fighting, and philandering is removed. Nor do his gods take on animal shape and forms, only human forms. I remember my childhood response to reading classical mythology, thinking how very like the worst aspects of human behaviour were those gods. Tolkien's seem an idealisation by comparison.

I think Nienna is his most interesting and original contribution to mythic divinity, although it is possible I am forgetting some of the divine characters from other mythologies. Certainly in LotR nothing gets accomplished without cooperation or sharing: success on Mount Doom needs both Sam and Frodo, the killing of the Witch-King employs both Merry and Eowyn.

Raynor has provided some interesting extensions to the idea of love.

Originally Posted by Raynor

I think that Varda is quite close to what one could call a goddess of love, which would fit your above connection. On one hand, she is described as the most beautiful vala, most likely the most beautiful of all Eru's "offsprings"

. . .

In most legendariums, the goddess of love is usually the one most endowed with beauty.

Once beauty is brought into the equation, do we need to consider Tolkien's comments on beauty and evil in OFS?

Originally Posted by OFS

The fear of the beautiful fay that ran through the elder ages almost eludes our grasp. Even more alarming, goodness is itself bereft of its proper beauty.

Originally Posted by Raynor

It is also worth mentioning that the elves were freed from most of the desires of the flesh, being masters of their bodies and urges - therefore enjoying love in its highest form

Given Child's observation about the absence of eroticism, I suppose we ought to ask a question about this hierarchy. Do the ancient mythologies have this value system of higher and lower forms of love? Is this valuation something in Tolkien's text or is it an assumption that Raynor is bringing to the text?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Beth

Nor do his gods take on animal shape and forms, only human forms.

At least Yavanna takes a non-human form, that of gigantic tree.

I think Nienna is his most interesting and original contribution to mythic divinity, although it is possible I am forgetting some of the divine characters from other mythologies.

The buddhists also have Tara, the divine aspect of compassion, with her male companion, Avalokiteshvara. In Christianity, in think that Mary, the mother of Christ, would also be a fit figure for this, seeing her imagery and prayers dedicated to her.

Once beauty is brought into the equation, do we need to consider Tolkien's comments on beauty and evil in OFS?

Hm, I don't remember even a single elven woman using her beauty in an evil way; [interestingly enough, I have to think hard to remember a single evil elven woman.]

Do the ancient mythologies have this value system of higher and lower forms of love?

In most Indian-related religions (hinduism and buddhism in particular), vairagya, detachement in all aspects of life, is highly estimeed; even in kaula and mishra, the non-superior branches of Tantra, spiritual development in a couple is not possible without detachment.

Is this valuation something in Tolkien's text or is it an assumption that Raynor is bringing to the text?

There is this interesting refference in Aelfwine's preamble:

Originally Posted by Of the marriage laws and customs of the Eldar, their children, and other matters touching thereon, Later Quenta Silmarillion, HoME X

The Eldar wedded once only in life, and for love or at the least by free will upon either part. Even when in after days, as the histories reveal, many of the Eldar in Middle-earth became corrupted, and their hearts darkened by the shadow that lies upon Arda, seldom is any tale told of deeds of lust among them.
...
They are not easily deceived by their own kind; and their spirits being masters of their bodies, they are seldom swayed by the desires of the body only, but are by nature continent and steadfast.

They seem to embody the kind of pure, untainted love, that Tolkien believed would happen between humans only in cases of saints, or later in life when the "sex cools down", and only in the rarest of cases between "ordinary folk" [- cf. letter #43 to Michael Tolkien on the subject of marriage and the relations betwen the sexes].