The Undying Lands

Originally Posted by narfforc

There is something somewhere (I think in the Akallabeth) that mentions; It is not the Land of Manwe that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein..and something like that. The hobbits are mortals and are accounted among men I believe, so where there spirits go only Mandos knows. The Old Took is dead and not wandering around the Undying Lands, if they ever meet it will be when the hobbits die.

Do you think it would have been possible for Sauron to ever conquer the Undying Lands? Or would this test the patience of Eru too far for him to dare try this?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Well Sauron corrupted the men of Numenor and made them try to concure the unying lands. The result was that Manwe gave up his "rule" of Arda and that Eru took over. The whole army was destroyed and Eru changed the world. Removing the unying lands from the mortals and destroying Numenor.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Do you think it would have been possible for Sauron to ever conquer the Undying Lands? Or would this test the patience of Eru too far for him to dare try this?

Concerning the force of the Numenorean fleet, Tolkien noted:

Originally Posted by Letter #131

Tar-Calion feels old age and death approaching, and he listens to the last prompting of Sauron, and building the greatest of all armadas, he sets sail into the West, breaking the Ban, and going up with war to wrest from the gods 'everlasting life within the circles of the world'.

What Sauron actually expected is that:

Originally Posted by Akallabeth, Silmarillion

It was greater far than aught he had looked for, hoping only for the death of the Numenoreans and the defeat of their proud king.

If this fleet is the mightiest that ever was, then it surpasses even that of the host of the valar during the war of wrath - which kicked Melkor and co almost for good. But even the numenorean fleet he expected to be defeated (by what means, it is not mentioned). In conclusion, I don't think he deluded himself by thinking he was mightier than the valar; he rather hoped that he won't have anything to do with Eru & co:

Originally Posted by Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, i, Myths Transformed, HoME X

He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Ea, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the 'change of the world' at the Downfall of Numenor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Silly me forgetting to answer the question. . . well, what he said.

I don't think he had ambition or ability to do so.

Who exactly lived in & commanded the Undying Lands? How big was this country?

[Lalwendë]

Very big I hope. Has anyone else ever thought about the simple maths - a load of immortals and all their immortal descendants would make for one enormous population. Maybe Valinor was like something from a dystopian Sc-fi novel with towering skyscrapers where each person is allotted just seven feet by three of living space? Or maybe they had discovered how to shrink themselves as seen in Kurt Vonnegut's Slapstick?

[Raynor]

A short description is given in the Sil:

Originally Posted by Of the begining of days

Behind the walls of the Pelori the Valar established their domain in that region which is called Valinor, and there were their houses, their gardens, and their towers. In that guarded land the Valar gathered great store of light and an the fairest things that were saved from the ruin; and many others yet fairer they made anew, and Valinor became more beautiful even than Middle-earth in the Spring of Arda; and it was blessed, for the Deathless dwelt there, and there naught faded nor withered, neither was there any stain upon flower or leaf in that land, nor any corruption or sickness in anything that lived; for the very stones and waters were hallowed.

It seems that the place was quite large .

I would also speculate that Aman was quite fitting - besides Valinor, there was also Araman and Avathar; plus, Tol Eressea too was removed after the Akallabeth, "beyond the reach of Men". This could mean an alternate reality, whatever that is - perhaps something similar to the shadow world of the ringwraith; or it could simply mean a another planet in Ea.

[Legolas]

Mansun, you should read the Silmarillion.

It's alllll about the Undying Lands. Don't let us spoil it all for you.