The Beard of Théoden

[Anguirel]

Well, in principle this is exactly the sort of horror-movie Jackson importation that I loathe, detest, and condemn.

However, I have to admit I loved it and would never change it.

It provided what I found the most comic moment in the whole film trilogy-this exchange-

Gandalf: "The courtesy of your hall is somewhat lessened of late, Théoden King."

Grima: (like a condescending schoolmaster to a dimwitted pupil) "He is not welcome."

Théoden: "Whhhhhyyyy should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"

Grima: (like the said schoolmaster giving the said pupil a gold star) "A just question, my liege."

Cracks me up every time...

[Lalaith]

when Gandalf "cures" Théoden from Saruman

What I don't like about the scene, and the ones that follow it, is that Gandalf doesn't actually seem to have done more than a cosmetic cure.
Book-Theoden, once his malaise has been lifted, is helpful, positive and cheerfully ready for battle.

a kindly old man

, as Gandalf described him.

In the film, the allegedly cured Theoden spends most of the Helms Deep battle sulking in the cellar, muttering surly, unhelpful comments that belong to the Saruman-infected book-Theoden.

[Boromir88]

I didn't like the 'exorcism' of Theoden, and the possession of Theoden with a little Saruman inside of him. Grima plays an important role in the deteriation of Theoden's health. Not only through corrupt and evil counsel, but also by administering poison:

'may well have been induced or increased by subtle poisons, administered by Gríma. In any case Théoden's sense of weakness and dependence on Gríma was largely due to the cunning and skill of this evil counsellor's suggestions.'~Unfinished Tales, The Fords of Isen

The importance is places on Grima's counseling and an administering of poisons, that is taken away by Peter Jackson's take on Saruman posessing Theoden.

I personally imagined the change to be less dramatic. . . More like a man discovering he is not as old as he thought. He would straighten his back, speak with a clearer voice maybe gain some glimpse in his eye. I know that you need to do it a bit more dramatic for it to work on film, but what was done was simply silly.~Rune

I think that is fairly accurate, for it still describes Theoden as having 'old and wrinkled' hands. However, he is no longer bent over, and looking as if he's got one foot in the grave. He stands up to his 'full height' and I believe there is a mention of a 'glimmer' in his eyes. Theoden is still an old King, but instead of being bent over and looking like Death itself, he is tall, strong, and renewed.

[Brinniel]

The change that happens in Théoden's appearances is simply too dramatic. All of the sudden his hair is brushed and his huge beard pretty much disappears.

I personally imagined the change to be less dramatic. . . More like a man discovering he is not as old as he thought. He would straighten his back, speak with a clearer voice maybe gain some glimpse in his eye.

Well, as a reader of the books, of course you would feel that way. But subtlety was never meant for cinema. Everything must be overdone, otherwise the more ignorant audience would not understand the true condition of Theoden.

Perhaps we ought to ask a non-reader if they thought the scene was overdone.

In the film, the allegedly cured Theoden spends most of the Helms Deep battle sulking in the cellar, muttering surly, unhelpful comments that belong to the Saruman-infected book-Theoden.

I agree. The one thing I was always bothered about Theoden was his constant negativity not only throughout TTT, but also into RotK...

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Well, as a reader of the books, of course you would feel that way. But subtlety was never meant for cinema. Everything must be overdone, otherwise the more ignorant audience would not understand the true condition of Theoden.

I disagree. There are plenty of movies I've seen and have not read the books that I hope weren't dumbed down for me. Likewise, all my family and friends that have seen LOTR haven't read it and they are capable of following along.
I do agree that something a little bit more has to be done for the reason that movies are mostly visual, and books can always have background info written in and that's not always possible in a movie.

I do like the possesion/excorcism of Theoden but less would have been more, the straightening up, clearer voice, etc. that Rune brings up. If something more had to be put in perhaps, clearing of the eyes (as if he had cataracts) and being disheveled in his possessed state than next scene(dinnertime) he is clean-implying in between he had sense to bathe and groom himself.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I too find that Théoden only seem to be half cured of Saruman in the movies, but for some reason it has never haunted me. Wich is weird, when I can get upset over how fast a guy can remove another guys beard.

Anyways. . .
The points made by Broromir and Lalaith, reminded me of another thing that bothers me about Théoden. His age or rather that he looks very young in the movies.

Have this been brought up before? We have had the Boromir and Legolas discutions, but what about Théoden ?

The fact that he is described as a kindly old man and with old and wrinkled hands, always made me picture him grandfatherish. Now in the movies he looks fairly young to me. He is deffenitly not 71 years (as Encyclopedia of Arda just told me) Théoden is.

[Boromir88]

Well the actor that plays him Bernard Hill, would have been approaching 60, but he didn't even look 60 in the movies. They must have given Mr. Hill a wig, or just dyed his hair, because his hair (in real life) is grey. Which I think contributes to the rather young looking Theoden. Had I not known Theoden's age from the books, I would have guessed he was about 50.