Eldest?

Originally Posted by FOTR

"Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless- before the Dark Lord came from the Outside.

If Tom Bombadil were referring to Melkor, than hands-down Bombadil is older than Treebeard. And even with Sauron, since Sauron arrived at generally the same time as Melkor.

If we remember...

In Silmarillion... When Aule made the race of the dwarves... Eru came and was angry, and the Dwarves were to be kept sleeping until after the Children of Illuvatar were to awake...

After Aule told Yavanna the story, she said "your children and my children will not get along" or something along those lines (her children were plants.. trees.. etc)..

Aule said that even the Children of Illuvatar will have need of wood, food, etc...

Yavanna, worried, went to speak to Manwe about it... Manwe asked Yavanna which of her creations were most dear to her, and she said Trees... so Illuvatar revealed the Shephards of the Trees... spirits that would enter the trees once the children of Illuvatar had awaken, to protect the trees...

So Treebeard awoke at the time after the Children of Illuvatar awoke... Before that - entities already roamed the earth... entities which came from the outside - such as the Valar... and the Maiar... Tom is not Valar... so it makes sense that he must be Maiar - in which case he is older than Treebeard..

Another puzzeling thing is why Gandalf (Olorin) calls Treebeard "Eldest"...

Olorin is of the Maiar... older than the Earth... and much older than Trees... and the shephards of trees - so why does he call Treebeard "Eldest"?

[Boromir88]

Another puzzeling thing is why Gandalf (Olorin) calls Treebeard "Eldest"...

First...read my signature.

Second, in one of my posts before:

Eldest was the courtesy title of Treebeard as the oldest surviving Ent. The Ents claimed to be the oldest 'speaking people' after the Elves {illegible} until taught the art of speech by the Elves...They were therefore placed after the dwarves in the Old List...since Dwarves had the power of speech from their awaking.

As far as who Tom Bombadil is, there are several interesting and indepth threads. Being a Maiar is a possibility, perhaps even just a nature spirit, or perhaps as I think Tom B. is Tolkien.

[Arathul]

Tom is a merry fellow, that i'm pretty sure

Actually Tolkien did mention that he deliberately leave Tom Bombadil as an enigma. a lingering mystery. in fact, that's what make LOTR so interesting. he deliberately leave several blank spots of which he let the imagination of readers waging freely and his books become a topic of endless discussion.

A bit of topic: Did you know the "Fair Lady" that Tom mention when he took the treasures from the barrow?

[The Mouth of Sauron]

It's possible of course that Tom Bombadil and Treebeard are one and the same being , because there is no time in the LOTR or indeed in the entire recorded history of Middle-Earth or beyond when they are ever seen together .

I am the Mouth of Sauron .