Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Roa_Aoife]

I don't believe anyone started pointing fingers at particular people during the post game discussion. No one blamed Form speciffically for the loss, though some comments were made about him not helping himself very much.

I believe the village as a whole was accused of not playing well. To be certain, quiet players, though they bug me, aren't a huge problem normally. And I do respect the tactic if it can be pulled off well by a wolf. (I hold great respect for Naria's abilties, for example.) The problem that was expressed in this particular village was that everyone was quiet, not just the usually quiet people. This fact was expounded upon seperately by several different people. Most them only made a statement once before the other players started taking offense. Naturally, this caused backlash in the people trying to find a solution, and before long all sorts of insults were being thrown about, most of them actually coming from the other villagers, not the ones who supposedly started the whole thing.

It's quite simple really. Those people who keep saying that it's just a game and we shouldn't take it so seriously are the first ones to take comments out of hand and get insulted. If you really don't take it so seriously, then why get so offended?

How is a comment that, "The whole village was too quiet and we lost the game because of it," trying to dictate what people can and cannot do in a game when, "You're opinions are rude and you can't say them," isn't?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Uh... just a suggestion, might be a bit extreme but I believe it would get the job done. If anyone seems to start getting out of hand, despite warnings from the game mod, the BW should be notified and the member in question should be given a suspension ranging anywhere from a day to a week depending on how bad it was. It may sound harsh but it'll keep people in check.

[Roa_Aoife]

Uh... just a suggestion, might be a bit extreme but I believe it would get the job done. If anyone seems to start getting out of hand, despite warnings from the game mod, the BW should be notified and the member in question should be given a suspension ranging anywhere from a day to a week depending on how bad it was. It may sound harsh but it'll keep people in check.

Then no one will say anything because they're afraid of suspension. You can't just stop people from speaking their opinions. We (Americans, at least) fight wars over that sort of thing. It opens us up for personal politics and figurative witch hunts.

Not to mention, it only covers half the problem, (more than half, in my opinion) which excludes the people who take comments out of hand and get insulted far too easily.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Its not a direct suspension... they would be asked to tone down a bit first. I'm all for freedom of speech but there is such a thing as order as well. If we just let everyone run rampant it would lead to quite a mess. Theres times when even the people with the best of self-restraint lose a hold of themselves.

Flaming is against the rules and if anything (even if its in game) begins to come close to that I believe it should lead to a suspension regardless of whatever. However, what do I know? I haven't been following anything thats been happening for a while. What we have to identify is what is flaming and what is someone getting ahead of themselves. I am all for freedom of expression, as you should know by now Roa, though I do believe you shouldn't let it go to the point where you're at each others throats, someone has to intervene at that point.

I'm not saying that someone be suspended if they just begin arguing but only if they begin making direct insults or if they pass snide comments, something of that sort.

As for people who get insulted easily... well uh... therapy is all I can suggest. :/

[Roa_Aoife]

I see. I didn't understand fully the first time. Thank you for clarifying.

I still say it only covers half the problem, and it still opens us up for personal politics, but I understand what you're trying to say now. Perhaps we should hold off such extreme measures until we have some truly extreme situations, which I don't believe we have had yet.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Then no one will say anything because they're afraid of suspension. You can't just stop people from speaking their opinions. We (Americans, at least) fight wars over that sort of thing. It opens us up for personal politics and figurative witch hunts.

Not to mention, it only covers half the problem, (more than half, in my opinion) which excludes the people who take comments out of hand and get insulted far too easily.

To quote another forum, on which I'm a moderator, and on which we've had a similar problem...

You have no First Amendment rights here. There is no Constitution here other than what the Admins and Moderators say.

That said, I believe the major issue is not so much WHAT has been said, as HOW it has been said. Nogrod has admitted to being guilty of this, but I would say that it is not just him.

We have to remember that, this being an online forum, the only impression we can give people is through the words that we choose to use. People cannot get a feel for our looks, our tone, our intensity, or anything- just the bare words. As a result, the choice of words is far more important than it is face to face, since it is not corroborated with visuals.

With no offence intended by saying so, you, Roa, are one of the worse offenders here. You are supremely self-confidant, and highly opinionated. Your choice of words tends to come across as very high-handed. Whether or not you intend to insult people, the result seems in general to be that you get people's ire up. Your speeches tend to sound like you treat yourself and your way as best- the implication being that everyone else is worse and would do well to be the same as you.

And you seem to be blissfully unaware of the effect your words are having. They say "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", but this is patently untrue, and "the pen is mightier than the sword" is a good deal more truthful. You come across, Roa, as completely unapologetic for any insult you may have caused- intended or not.

It's not what's being said, but HOW it's being said.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Well said, I agree with you quite whole-heartedly Formendacil. Roa does come across as offensive/hypocritical at times but then again I'm quite sure we all do since its quite easy to read things the wrong way as has been highlighted by Forme. Personally I don't think theres anyway to help the people who are offended easily, perhaps an apology would help settle things. Thats all that really can be done...

And why wait for the event till we take the precaution? Prevention is better than cure. If we place a rule in place now then it would avoid any unpleasentries we may have to go through in the future but anyway I just say we try not to let this discussion get out of hand. That would be mighty silly now, wouldn't it?

[Roa_Aoife]

I've apologized for insult caused in the past, Form, but I was met with scorn for it.

No matter how many times I have explicitly stated that I don't think my way is the only good way to play, and that I don't think of myself as better than anyone else, people still insist on taking my words the wrong way. Indeed, some people seem determined to find fault in everything I say.

I never intentionally insult people. I say what I mean, and nothing more than that. You want an apology? I'll apologize when I stop getting attacked everytime I open my mouth.

[Sleepy Ranger]

I wonder if I'll ever be able to begin setting up my game...

[Roa_Aoife]

No one's stopping you.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I dont want my style of speech dictated.

Careful, good members of the Barrow-Downs! You haven't forgotten that the Werewolf games take place in the context of this forum, have you? We have very clear rules about post content, and even if some of you come here only for the games, those rules still apply. This is not a democracy, it is a site owned by The Barrow-Wight; he has the sole right to make guidelines for posting. The Werewolf games are no exception to the forum rules. Personal insults and flaming are never acceptable.

[Mister Underhill]

What Esty said. We've never allowed the "I'm a straight-shooter!" gambit to excuse insulting, aggressive, or sarcastic posting.

Keep in mind that civil discussion is and always has been the rule here across the board, and that The Saucepan Man has been empowered by BD administration to enforce board policies, here in Mirth and elsewhere.

I personally don't think a separate thread is necessary -- SPM's sticky post is clear. If you are in doubt about a post, chances are you can dial it back some. Don't attack other posters; analyze issues. Don't make posts that drip with sarcasm or that are even obliquely insulting. Play nice. This stuff is Downs 101.

I'll leave it up to SPM to judge whether this issue requires its own thread or not. Just keep in mind that these policies are as old as the Downs itself.