The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2006, 09:14 AM   #1
symestreem
Face in the Water
 
symestreem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
symestreem has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by narfforc
President Bush is quite small, and unfortunately one of the most powerful men on the planet.
He's 5'11"... I'd hate to see what you think of my height!

Also, here's an interesting article I found when searching for the President's height.

Getting back to the original topic, it's possible that Tolkien did this deliberately, but a lot of the examples listed by Thinlomien are merely logical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
We have Faramir, who is said to be taller than his companions.
In ROTK, I believe, it said that the blood of Numenor ran "nearly true" in Faramir, whereas his companions would have been of lesser lineage. Thus it makes sense that he would have been taller. In the same way, Aragorn is logically taller than Boromir because he is of the Dunedain and part-elven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
We have Éomer, who is the tallest of his éored.
Eomer was also of Gondorian descent, through his grandmother Morwen Steelsheen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
We have Galadriel, the most powerful elf in Middle-Earth, who is very tall for a woman.
Wasn't this description given in FOTR, which was ultimately recorded by Frodo? She is tall for a woman, but not necessarily for an elf. It makes sense for an elven woman to be taller than a mortal one.

The other examples may be chance, or Tolkien might be trying to make a point... but in his stories, might doesn't equal right. It's not a clear parallel of the Stone Age days when the tallest, strongest man often led the tribe. Purity of heart and courage count for much more than height-- as other posters have already pointed out, two of the shortest people in Middle-earth had more of these qualities than some of the tallest men.

My theory is that by making people tall Tolkien was trying to emphasize their noble heritage, in the case of the men, and in the elves, indicate that the blood of their parents ran true in them, and that they had received their favorable traits.
symestreem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 10:26 AM   #2
Raynor
Eagle of the Star
 
Raynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
Raynor has just left Hobbiton.
I would say that the 'blue print' is found in the valar. In the Annals of Aman, it is stated that "after the coming of the Eldar they (the valar) most often used shapes of 'human' form, though taller (not gigantic) and more magnificent". In letter #246, Tolkien states about Sauron: "the form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic".
Raynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 12:38 PM   #3
narfforc
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
narfforc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Muddy-earth
Posts: 1,297
narfforc has been trapped in the Barrow!
If George W Bush is 5' 11'' then I stand corrected, it is that he looks shorter, and I think maybe he is surrounded by bigger people. Having stood quite close to him I would have bet my life he was'nt that Tall, maybe for the reason we are talking about, his aids wish him to be more than what he is, and have added somewhat to his dimensions, but then I may be wrong. How tall is Laura then?
__________________
[B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER.
narfforc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 12:54 PM   #4
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Let's stay away from current politics and stick to Middle-earth, please...
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 12:56 PM   #5
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Auspicious Wraith
 
Eomer of the Rohirrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Shield

Of course not all the important characters can be really tall, but this is just a splash of realism on Tolkien's part. He wanted most of his leaders to stand out and inspire awe in his followers. What simpler way to inspire awe than in being visually outstanding? It's the same with beauty.

Concerning Hobbits: Yes they saved the world, but they didn't lead the world. They were jokes, cause for laughter, among the Men of Middle-earth until their ignorance was demonstrated. So the default position is shown to be disrespect. The Hobbits had to save the lives of the tall folk in order for their worth to be obvious (to those tall folk). Think of Pippin at Minas Tirith: the very notion that this tiny little guy could help our city!

Generally, heighty is seen to be mighty. (Love the thread title, by the way. )
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond
Eomer of the Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 01:03 PM   #6
Anguirel
Byronic Brand
 
Anguirel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
Anguirel is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
But phantom's point on Hurin-specifically described as shorter than most men of his House-is interesting. Also Beren is not described as tall, and indeed I read an interesting essay arguing that he too was short(er), evidence including the fact that Curufin shot at Luthien and Beren jumped yet landed the arrow in his upper torso...it also fits with Beren's slinking outlawry approach.

And then there are the Druedain. And of course the Naugrim. Both races of doughty warriors...

Yeah, alright, but the general principle still holds...

I find Boromir's discussion of "evil"height interesting; but evil also works by the slinking malformed Wormtongue/Gollum approach...
__________________
Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter
-Il Lupo Fenriso
Anguirel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 01:09 PM   #7
Bêthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bêthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bêthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
1420!

Well, isn't it obvious that fantasy is full of tall tales?
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bêthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2006, 12:56 AM   #8
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,244
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
It is even more obvious that anything 'merely natural', be it height or smallness, good wit or physical strength may be used both for good or for bad
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 12:24 PM   #9
the guy who be short
Shadowed Prince
 
the guy who be short's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
I don't have much to add that's original, but as the site's official short person, I thought I should make my presence felt.

Excessive height always attracts attention. The only example I can think of is one I'm sure most people won't get, but, for example, look at Peter Crouch on the football pitch. He just sort of... towers. It draws the eye. Tall characters are there to stick out from the mundane.

In addition, height is desirable. The typical attractive man is tall, dark and handsome (two out of three ain't bad, is it? ). I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I always feel that in emphasising height, Tolkien is saying "this person is attractive." Look at the list - Galadriel, Aragorn, who wed an elf, Thingol, who bagged a Maia. Tall equates to hunky in the men, noble in the women. Sauron also fits in with this; he appears as a tall man when he wants to seem fair.
the guy who be short is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:26 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.