Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXII: Hic Monstrae Trucidant

[Thinlómien]

A lot of people are voicing suspicions of TGWBS and I can clearly see why. Relying to my lorebooks I hesitate to take sides though I'm a bit suspicious of him, since my lorebooks tell of me being quite confident of his wolvishness and contributing to his death only to find out he was an innocent. He can be quite baffling.

Morm is still think suspicious, since he has been mostly nonsense toDay as well, his latest post only naming three suspects without explanations except his counter-attack on me.

I read through Cara's posts as I said I would, and I found out that she mostly speaks nonsense (sorry, ex-sis), voices suspicions (but mainly old ones) and the only interesting point she makes is that the Changeling would probably try to take the Evil side, instead of taking the safer path.

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

...as the Changeling would likely take it as a challenge to do the more difficult thing... Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.

Maybe. We can't know before we know who the Changeling is. When I reread this I started to wonder if it's a wolf we see here, trying to sway the Changeling to play for the evil side...? I would also like to add the point that I wouldn't be surprised to find Cara a bold wolf.

Fea I found most baffling. She's slippy. I don't know what to make of her. She certainly needs to be watched.

Mith worries me too. She's posts pretty much, but she's quite insubstantial. Of this, if of something, could be used Sauce's term "maintaining a presence".

LMP is too a lot more nonsense than usually. I'm gradually getting more worried of him.

Someone pointed an interesting point on Cailín and her being swayed by spawn rather flip-floppily (don't say I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of flip-floppery, but I mean that whereas I tend to flip-flop, Cailín doesn't). Also, it seemed that she started to make sense after there had been worried remarks on her behaviour.

Fin feels quite innocent right now, but I'd like to mention her in this post since I have the feeling that she will fly under the radar and if she's a wolf that's a very bad thing.

Now, I see that's about half the village, if not even more. So maybe this could be of use, to arrange my thoughts and let you be aware of them:

Order of suspiciousness
Morm/Cara
LMP
Cailín/Mith
TGWBS
Fea
Fin

EDIT: xed with spawn, bomba and guy

[Nogrod]

Just reporting in...

Sorry about toDay so far, but I've been at work for the last 13 hours (and still have some 30+ essays to read tonight)! But now I need something completely different for a while.

I'll just check the thread and join you then.

[tom bombariffic]

I have to go now, and though he wasn't on my recent list of 2, I'm going for morm.

Turns out I'd misread his post earlier; I thought he was coming back after his butchery, but apparently he's not.

I am reluctant to punish him for his 'werewolf fatigue' because I can see how it would affect your enthusiasm, but somehow I just don't buy it. He took the trouble to come in and catch up reading, but then listed 3 votes without saying why.

I am still suspicious that this 'weariness' is an excuse for being a quiet wolf, and I will be voting appropriately.

++ Morm

[Crossed with SpM]

[The Saucepan Man]

Elempi => Caran (Caran-1)
Morm => Caran (Caran-2)
Elempi ≠> Caran => spawn (Carn-1, spawn-1)
Lhuna = > Durelin (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SpM => Fea (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1, Fea-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-2, Fea-1)

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Elempi

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up.

Originally Posted by morm

I'm doing my morning catch up and have to say that I agree 100% with this one. I wish I could give you a big hug right now LMP because this is exactly how I feel.

What is this werewolf weariness rubbish? A man who is weary of Werewolf is weary of life!

But seriously, if you cannot find the energy to commit, you should not be in this village. Personally, even if I am weary, I cannot resist rabbiting on at length whenever I come to the village square. I generally find so much to talk about and comment on that I am almost compelled to pipe up. And morm and Elempi are usually the same. I don’t buy this werewolf fatigue thing and I am beginning to wonder if it is a tactic. Then again, they would be foolish Wolves indeed if they were both to use the same excuse for their quietitude.

Originally Posted by Lommy

What do you mean by "the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday"? That it was mainly my fault he got lynched?

Frankly, yes. As I see it, you got into a tussle with him and so found yourself arguing against him. Then, when grounds for suspicion of him were aired, you seized on and promulgated them. Those grounds formed the main plank of the argument against him. It does not follow, of course, that you are guilty. You may just have been a misguided innocent. But, as I said, I am wary of you.

Originally Posted by spawn

Sauce still seems different from his usual self …

This seems to be said about me by someone in every village I inhabit. And they never seem to explain exactly what they mean by it.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Saucie decidedly defended Boro, and Boro turns out innocent. Isn't it possible that this was set up so that Sauce turned out looking good?

Ah yes. I wondered how long it would be before this came up. I actually indicated my belief in Boro’s likely innocence a long time before he became a serious lynch candidate and was very surprised when he ended up being lynched. Fact is, he never looked particularly guilty to me, quite the contrary, and the arguments against him always looked rather spurious. Those responsible for promulgating them are either malign or they were misguided. Besides, if I was a Wolf and had decided to align myself with an innocent Boro, I would have wanted him to stick around a lot longer than he did.

Originally Posted by Elempi

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks.

You think so? I thought that it was a rather reasonable response. It is understandable for someone to expect some reasoning when a vote is cast for them.

Originally Posted by Cailín

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...

I am slightly uneasy about TGWBS. He contributed very little yesterday and made a “random” vote that could be interpreted as a safe Wolfish vote. And today, despite a promising start, he is failing to live up to his promise. In #154, he said that he could not trust what anyone was saying and would carry out his own analysis and reach his own conclusions. Yet, despite an a lengthy analysis of Boro’s death (#156), he seems to have come up with little to show for it so far.

My main thoughts remain with Fea, though. And no, Fea, they are not wolf-whistly thoughts (in either sense), but similar to the thoughts that might run through the mind of a mouse when eyeing up a particularly hungry cat. Has Fea actually made any contribution to this village other than reacting to some mild suspicion on Day 1 and casting an unreasoned (and safe-looking) vote for me? Because, if she has, I have not noticed it. Busy elsewhere she may be, but she still manages to pop in every so often without ever actually saying anything that might help us in catching the Wolves. She hasn’t even tried messing with our minds very much, which is unusual for her. Now she’s interested in TGWBS, but doesn’t say why. She’s unnerving and unhelpful, so I am going to revert to my original gut feeling on this.

+ + FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL

Edit: Cross-posted with some of TGWBS's "Death of Boro" conclusions, so he has at least come up with something now in consequence of his early analysis.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

LMP is too a lot more nonsense than usually. I'm gradually getting more worried of him.

Care to explain what you mean? This is awfully vague, which is in its turn rather suspicious, although, Lommy, I suppose you tend to be vague, so maybe this is just you theorizing out loud. Either way, I'd appreciate it if you would do me the courtesy of explaining what "nonsense" you're talking about? Thanks.

Originally Posted by SPM

I cannot resist rabbiting on at length whenever I come to the village square. I generally find so much to talk about and comment on that I am almost compelled to pipe up. And morm and Elempi are usually the same. I don’t buy this werewolf fatigue thing and I am beginning to wonder if it is a tactic. Then again, they would be foolish Wolves indeed if they were both to use the same excuse for their quietitude.

This is precisely the kind of bold in-your-face wolvish statement I've been waiting for from you, SPM. The lorebooks show that such a disregard for your fellow innocent villagers' state of mind was precisely the key that showed your ancestor's wolvishness. Nobody at that time saw it for what it was until too late. I am making sure nobody misses it this time. Thank you for slipping up in this fashion. I challenge you to vindicate yourself. But you are slippery, sir. Perhaps the only sufficient vindication may be your lynching or the seer declaring you innocent, since your very efforts to clear yourself will most likely be so full of loyerly misdirection and logic chopping that you persuade people against their better judgment that you are not the werewolf I strongly suspect you to be.

Originally Posted by SPM

You think so? I thought that it was a rather reasonable response. It is understandable for someone to expect some reasoning when a vote is cast for them.

Yes, I thought so. I gave reasons. Since you, my dear sir, are exploding with vim and vigor, feel free to do the research.

Originally Posted by tom

[Morm] took the trouble to come in and catch up reading, but then listed 3 votes without saying why.

You obviously don't know how Morm plays this game. This is his typical means of checking out the three named. He was looking for reactions. It doesn't mean he's guilty. Nor innocent. I suppose this looks like me defending Morm. Heck, I like the guy. He did want to give me a hug, after all. (here's bear-hug for ya morm) But facts are facts, and it's a shame for someone to waste a lynch vote on not knowing what's going on.

Originally Posted by Feanor

I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.

This seems for real to me.

SPM's aggressive response to the same quote I just posted, is noted. An aggressive SPM is a typical SPM. An aggressive, wolvish SPM is the kind who will pick a few likely villagers who he is rather sure he can turn into scapegoats, and ride them for all they're worth, making sure not to allow them to get lynched and proven innocent until it's well along in the game and they have served their purpose. So watch whom he attacks and rides mercilessly. And I would suggest that if you are really unwise enough to keep him around, then please do lynch his victims and once you see that they are innocent, you'll have a stronger indication that SPM is a werewolf.

That said:

-- DANCING SPAWN OF UNGOLIANT

++ THE SAUCEPAN MAN

I'll post this up in hopes that it might be helpful to others before it's too late.

[Mithalwen]

Ooh well that makes sense actually ... he did me up like a kipper in another incarnation ...and maybe that is what is happening now.......

[Caranlondien]

Stopping back in... and not much has changed. Where are you people?

lmp, you make some excellent points about SpM. My introduction to Werewolf was by reading a game my brother was in, in which SpM fooled everyone. Thinking about it, I suppose that is why I suspected him so much yesterDay. I read that entire game knowing he was a wolf (because Aiwendil informed me), and so I suppose to me his "clueless villager" persona looks inherently wolvish.

EDIT: cross-posted with Celuien and Mithalwen

[Caranlondien]

Right now my vote for Fea is a essentially a throw-away vote, anyway. I really didn't want to vote for morm when he's been away for so long, but SpM I just don't trust. LMP's points have only cemented my suspicions

--Feanor
++The Saucepan Man

LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Fea => Caran (Caran-2, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
SpM ≠> Feanor => Caran (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Spawn => Mith (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Cailín => Caran (Caran-4, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Mithalwen => Caran (Caran-5, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
lmp ≠> Spawn => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Celuien => Caran (Caran-6, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Mithalwen ≠> Caran => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-2)
Durelin => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-3)
Caran ≠> Feanor => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-4)

Left to vote: Nilp, Nogrod, Fin

[Celuien]

An interesting case against SPM, Elempi. An ancestor of mine was lynched at the hands of a wolvish ancestor of his following the aggressive strategy you suggest. I only hope I don't fall victim to it again. But that said, I'm uncomfortable voting for him today. Hopefully, he'll remain too prominent and influential to go without a Seer dream. He may already have been dreamt about.

I would also like to point out that my lorebook shows that the former Wolfman Sauce turned in his comrades in crime without hesitation to become the lone survivor of his team. And so even if he is a wolf, that doesn't mean that all of his suspects would be innocent. He might even play a major role in their demise as a wolf to gain trust.

I'm not ignoring the possibiliy of his guilt, though he seems less likely than some others here.

And so:

++CARANLONDIEN

My top suspect for the day.

I'm returning to my cottage from the ketchup fields now. I'll try to make it back here before the deadline in case developments require a response from me, but it's a long trip, filled with slow moving sheep that block the path, so I may not be back before events close toDAY.

[Mithalwen]

OK will take a flyer since if you are right I seem to be a designated potential victim and it will mix things up a bit.


This strategy makes you so vulnerable if it backfires that I will chance trusting you:

--Caranlondien

++ Saucepan Man

Well he did say he wanted to be suspected

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

This strategy makes you so vulnerable if it backfires that I will chance trusting you

I hope for both our sakes your trust is not in vain.

[the guy who be short]

This is interesting. The three leaders are now morm, SpM and Caran.I'd be glad to kill off SpM just because he's infathomable. But I don't know how I feel towards Caran. She admits she is easily manipulated - but would the wolves risk killing Form if she were amongst them? I doubt it.

So I shall wait and see. If I have time, I will analyse Caran as I originally meant to. If not, my vote will stay with morm or change to SpM.

[Findëasëa]

Wow, two bandwagons in a row. I feel that the wolves are behind the creation of at least one of them. I am sticking with my belief that Caran is innocent. I will vote for either SPM or Mith in a bit, I just got back and I want to review a bit more first.

[The Saucepan Man]

All because I didn't buy your werewolf weariness, eh, Elempi? Touchy, touchy!

Still, thanks for garnering me a few votes. Just as long as they don't stack up much more.

Durelin, if I seem to lack direction, it is because I am probing and prodding. I am not entirely convinced that Fea is as pure as she makes out. But I didn't like the way that Caran jumped on my vote for her. That, added to the other things about Caran that have been aired today, makes her look very Wolfish in my eyes.

I am rather alarmed over Mith's uncharacteristic flip-floppiness, but that is a matter that I shall have to look into tomorrow if I am still here.

I am leaving now and won't be back before the deadline, so if any Wolves who have not yet voted for me want to take the opportunity to try to get me lynched, please feel free to do so. It won't do you any favours though.

Edit: Cross-posted with Caran, among others. What a surprise! She has changed her vote yet again. How did I guess she might do that ...?

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by SpM

I am not entirely convinced that Fea is as pure as she makes out. But I didn't like the way that Caran jumped on my vote for her.

Honestly, I wrote that analysis of Fea before you voted for her. I admit I tend to be rather swayed by people's arguments, but my suspicion of Fea was my own.

[Nogrod]

Oh my!

Just look through ten essays and what has happened meanwhile...

Thanks Cailín for your information about Form. If he indeed is a renowned player, I would think that in a bunch of three werecreatures there would be at least one who knows that. So they wouldn't have thought him as the clumsy seer (even how jumpy Caran might have been at Night). So surely that doesn't clear Caran totally as there still is the chance of a set-up. But my personal suspicions over her seem to fall somewhat, as the best I had on her was just the wolves general jumpiness.

Mith gave me another wake up call. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before? If the last night's killer was the changeling indeed? That would make killing of him more understandable. A loner might not know his stature (I didn't, and I don't believe I'm the only one here) and could have taken his first Day peevishness as a sign of an unsufficient and unhelpful villager. If this is so, it's good news indeed. For that would mean that the Changeling is on our side, ducking Kath's ordeals nicely as s/he managed to pick a wolf on the first Night s/he made a pick (Kath could not enforce any vote from her/him yet - it would have been different, if s/he had f.ex. picked a Seer earlier, then s/he would probably had to go for her/him)!

EDIT: X-posted from the Ancient Rome onwards...