Did elves smoke?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

I think we can also make an informed guess at the nature ot the 'Tricksy Lights' in the Dead Marshes too.

I can picture Gandalf right now, hard at work in his fireworks workshop, feeding captive Elves beans in the attempt to make green Catherine Wheels.

[davem]

Could we have misjudged Feanor re the burning of the Ships at Losgar. Maybe some over excited Noldor burst into flame & took the ships with them?

[Macalaure]

I think the flammability of orcs gives a whole new perspective to the Dagor Bragollach. Come to think about it! The Siege of Angband went on for centuries while the orcs kept multiplying. At the end, Angband was severely over-populated with them, causing immense social stress to each individuum.
We tend to think that the sudden fire was a carefully planned device of Morgoth to break the siege, when in fact, the number of orcs unavoidably reached a critical point and made many of them go up in flames. The resulting pressure could not be contained by Angband anymore and instead burned the plain of Ard-galen.
We know that hoards of orcs marched behind the flames. These are the first lucky ones who could save themselves from burning and fled in horror - into the swords of elves and men.

Originally Posted by davem

Could we have misjudged Feanor re the burning of the Ships at Losgar. Maybe some over excited Noldor burst into flame & took the ships with them?

So you mean we should blame Amras for it?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

You two had better be careful or this thread will be moved to mirth!

Elves? Smoking? I don't see why not. They drank heartily enough, (as seen in The Hobbit) and I like to think that Tolkien put enough of himself into the books that the elves could, after getting to Valinor, sit back in a nice cosy chair and have a good smoke.

I just recalled, however, that Bilbo gave to Merry and Pippin some pipes that he said were made by the Elves (I don't have the book at hand, so someone will have to check that for me). So, perhaps they did. Maybe, like humans, some did and some didn't. I think the question is academic, anyway.

[Lalwendë]

A present for Mr Hookbill:

Bilbo laughed, and he produced out of a pocket two beautiful pipes with pearl mouth-pieces and bound with fine-wrought silver. 'Think of me when you smoke them!' he said. 'The Elves made them for me, but I don't smoke now.'

Perhaps Bilbo had to give up, owing to the flammable nature of his Elven friends.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

You two had better be careful or this thread will be moved to mirth!

Well, I can only say that I am attempting to explore the nature of Elves in this thread & if others are dragging it down to the level of a 'Mirth' topic I, surely, cannot be held responsible.

While we are speculating, I wonder if the Beacons of Gondor were Elf-Powered. It would be easy enough for a cunning Lord like Denethor to lure some passing Elves to the Beacon Hills on pretence of needing their aid. All that would be needed would be to then invite them to the top to admire the view & at the opportune moment have one of his men sneak up behind them & shout BOO! Instant beacon!

Originally Posted by Lalwende

Perhaps Bilbo had to give up, owing to the flammable nature of his Elven friends.

And how many innocent Elves lost their lives before he learned that lesson, I wonder?

EDIT.

Don't know if anyone could answer this, but how long would an Elf burn for? In the episode I referred to from HoM-e 7 gandalf says of Legolas 'He would burn bright while he lasted!'. This would call into question the usefulness of using Elves as a fuel source. The implication of Gandalf's words is that while Elves may be easy to ignite, they burn out quickly. I think we must imagine them as similar to matches. Which would imply they burn from the head down....

[narfforc]

Yes but the burning question is, do Elves being purer burn longer than Orcs, and are Dwarves Non-flammable because of the stone thingy whatsit, I can see this will cause many heated arguments, I have thought of these things now for more than a minute and my head hurts and I can smell smoke, Oh I am on fire I am burni

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Yes but the burning question is, do Elves being purer burn longer than Orcs, and are Dwarves Non-flammable because of the stone thingy whatsit, I can see this will cause many heated arguments, I have thought of these things now for more than a minute and my head hurts and I can smell smoke, Oh I am on fire I am burni

If dwarves are non-flammable, would this mean that dwarves could have originated the idea of the sauna? Without being combustible they would make great hot rocks. Or of course bed warmers in the midst of dark winter nights.

And if elves could burn, would this suggest a true source for balrogs? If orcs are perverted elves, then possibly a large mass of elves, aflame ... And if their ears are large and pointy enough, then possibly they were mistaken for ... wings.

I'm surprised no one has yet used the smiley that is just begging to be employed here:

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

And if elves could burn, would this suggest a true source for balrogs? If orcs are perverted elves, then possibly a large mass of elves, aflame ... And if their ears are large and pointy enough, then possibly they were mistaken for ... wings.

I think its more likely to have been the other way around. I think its more logical that originally there were Balrogs who, due to the stresses of life in the early geological stages of Arda, went to pieces. These Balrog fragments then took the form of individual beings. Of course, it would be necessary for these Elves to substitute a more acceptable account of their origin once they had realised which side their bread was buttered & switched to the winning side, so we get the whole 'Cuivienen' malarky, which all intelligent readers of Tolkien long since dismissed as a nonsense. I think its plain that the real motivation behind the Elves' fear of Balrogs (as evinced by Legolas in Moria) was that they might blow the gaff & reveal the truth of Elven origins. Scholars of Khuzdul have speculated that Gimli's words at that point 'Durin's Bane!' were actually a mishearing by Frodo of words in the dialect of Erebor: 'De' arinz p'en(z)' which translates roughly as 'Ere' Legolas - He says 'Search your feelings - I am your father!'

We do know from The Book of Lost Tales that originally there were a very great number of Balrogs, but in later versions the number reduces significantly - as the number of Elves increases. I don't think this can be put down to mere 'coincidence'.

It would be interesting to know how many Elves were produced by the average exploding Balrog.