Saruman the Good

[Sardy]

Also, Saruman would have used his extensive Ring-lore for GOOD. Since we know he constructed some sort of ring for himself (open to much speculation) he might've devised something for use against the Enemy. Or at the very least, his knowledge of the Ruling Ring, the Nine, the Seven and the Three (not to mention other lesser rings) could very possibly have been used against Sauron in ways we can ony imagine: whether Saruman knew of alterntive ways to destroy the One, flaws in or aspects that could be exploited in the design of the rings themselves, and so on...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sardy

Also, Saruman would have used his extensive Ring-lore for GOOD. Since we know he constructed some sort of ring for himself (open to much speculation) he might've devised something for use against the Enemy.

Perhaps, though making a ring to battle Sauron might fall under the category of attempting to use the Enemy's tools, a strategy of which the author would most likely not have approved.

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Perhaps, though making a ring to battle Sauron might fall under the category of attempting to use the Enemy's tools, a strategy of which the author would most likely not have approved.

Yes, but we're speculating on a GOOD Saruman, here---a plot device of which the author most assuredly DIDN'T appove...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sardy

Yes, but we're speculating on a GOOD Saruman, here---a plot device of which the author most assuredly DIDN'T appove...

Quite true, though I think that the mere act of making a ring for the purpose of challenging Sauron would have required turning bad, or at least ambiguous. To defeat Sauron at his own game, a desire for power would almost certainly come into play. The ring's power has to include something to allow its bearer to have the ability to control others into taking action, and something to give sheer power greater than Sauron. The story takes on a different moral theme if Saruman makes a 'bigger and badder' ring to defeat Sauron. Instead of the weak triumphing through adversity because they clung to the right path, it becomes a battle of wills of the great and mighty. It's a slippery slope for Saruman to then have lust for power and control emerge after the use of power that would have been required to defeat Sauron through the use of a ring. Thus, I can't imagine a good Saruman even considering making one.

Now, using his ring lore for good is an entirely different matter, and one that good-Saruman could certainly have been helpful with...

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Quite true, though I think that the mere act of making a ring for the purpose of challenging Sauron would have required turning bad...

Possibly. But I tend to think that there is much, much more to ring-lore and craft than just making an evil ruling ring. I think that Sauron's use of "evil" in designing his ring was a bit of an enigma. Surely the Three were not evil, nor any (or at least most) of the lesser rings crafted by the elves (and others?). I would assume that the many lesser rings that existed were (for the most part) not evil (or perhaps we would've heard more about them?)

What I'm getting at is that to design a ring-weapon might have gone against Tolkien's vision (though when dicussing and imagining alternate strategies and story-lines, I also think t's fair to consider alternate philosophies, ideals, strategies than Tolkien's, etc.) But if Saruman did posses the extensive ring-lore that he boasted (and, indeed, aligned himself with the good), either alone or with the elven-smiths, he could very consivably have crafted a ring to RESIST (as opposed to challenge) Sauron. Or a ring to of light powerful enough to usurp the One Ring's dark power... and so on...

With more knowledge of, and experts in, ring-lore active in Middle-earth, who knows what magical powers there might've been to behold? Perhaps even a magic ring arms race...

[ninja91]

well, there are obviously many different happenings that would not have occured. you all got me thinking! thanks!

[Lalwendë]

It's not entirely clear exactly what made Saruman go 'bad'. It could have been looking in the Palantir, it could have been his lust for the Ring. It could simply have been his proud nature. Either way, one thing caused him to reach that point and I think that this was his thirst for Ring Lore, which he came to regard as all-important in his own way of approaching the mission he had been set.

In contrast, Gandalf went out into the world and mixed with the people, and in this way he learned of what the Ring could do, and he also learned of its whereabouts. Saruman just learned as much Ring Lore as he could and retreated to Orthanc trusting that information would come to him.

Anyway, this is a roundabout way of getting to the point. I think that if Saruman had by chance not gone 'bad', his Ring Lore would have been the downfall of Middle-earth. Of course the Ring would have found its way to him as the others on the White Council would have deferred to his impressive knowledge and sought his advice and help. Even if Gandalf and Galadriel would have refused to touch the Ring, I think Saruman would not have resisted; his 'knowledge' would have deceived him and he would have attempted to deal with it. And there he would have been caught.