Saruman the Good

[Anguirel]

Blimming indistinguishable faceless Gods. I'm sure Mandos said something...

[Mänwe]

A query such as this produces a great list of suppositions, thus here is my two pennies worth.

Gandalf's sacrifice would not even have been needed. They would not have passed through Moria but continued on their original journey through the mountain pass.

The events consequently at Amon Hen would have been a totally different affair. I would suggest perhaps even the entire fellowship would not have "broken". Frodo's admiration and love for Gandalf would have given cause for him to stay and not to leave.

Building on the point raised about the palantir, Aragorn would not have revealed himself through the palantir to Sauron. Thus Saurons attack on Gondor would have been delayed.

The list I am sure would be rather long if we all took the time to think of every possible angle. A concertina effect of occurences is bought to mind here.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Blimming indistinguishable faceless Gods. I'm sure Mandos said something...

Mandos said not the first to Feanor.... Mandos says a lot - not a lot of it cheerful

[Sardy]

Also, Saruman would have used his extensive Ring-lore for GOOD. Since we know he constructed some sort of ring for himself (open to much speculation) he might've devised something for use against the Enemy. Or at the very least, his knowledge of the Ruling Ring, the Nine, the Seven and the Three (not to mention other lesser rings) could very possibly have been used against Sauron in ways we can ony imagine: whether Saruman knew of alterntive ways to destroy the One, flaws in or aspects that could be exploited in the design of the rings themselves, and so on...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sardy

Also, Saruman would have used his extensive Ring-lore for GOOD. Since we know he constructed some sort of ring for himself (open to much speculation) he might've devised something for use against the Enemy.

Perhaps, though making a ring to battle Sauron might fall under the category of attempting to use the Enemy's tools, a strategy of which the author would most likely not have approved.

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Perhaps, though making a ring to battle Sauron might fall under the category of attempting to use the Enemy's tools, a strategy of which the author would most likely not have approved.

Yes, but we're speculating on a GOOD Saruman, here---a plot device of which the author most assuredly DIDN'T appove...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sardy

Yes, but we're speculating on a GOOD Saruman, here---a plot device of which the author most assuredly DIDN'T appove...

Quite true, though I think that the mere act of making a ring for the purpose of challenging Sauron would have required turning bad, or at least ambiguous. To defeat Sauron at his own game, a desire for power would almost certainly come into play. The ring's power has to include something to allow its bearer to have the ability to control others into taking action, and something to give sheer power greater than Sauron. The story takes on a different moral theme if Saruman makes a 'bigger and badder' ring to defeat Sauron. Instead of the weak triumphing through adversity because they clung to the right path, it becomes a battle of wills of the great and mighty. It's a slippery slope for Saruman to then have lust for power and control emerge after the use of power that would have been required to defeat Sauron through the use of a ring. Thus, I can't imagine a good Saruman even considering making one.

Now, using his ring lore for good is an entirely different matter, and one that good-Saruman could certainly have been helpful with...

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Quite true, though I think that the mere act of making a ring for the purpose of challenging Sauron would have required turning bad...

Possibly. But I tend to think that there is much, much more to ring-lore and craft than just making an evil ruling ring. I think that Sauron's use of "evil" in designing his ring was a bit of an enigma. Surely the Three were not evil, nor any (or at least most) of the lesser rings crafted by the elves (and others?). I would assume that the many lesser rings that existed were (for the most part) not evil (or perhaps we would've heard more about them?)

What I'm getting at is that to design a ring-weapon might have gone against Tolkien's vision (though when dicussing and imagining alternate strategies and story-lines, I also think t's fair to consider alternate philosophies, ideals, strategies than Tolkien's, etc.) But if Saruman did posses the extensive ring-lore that he boasted (and, indeed, aligned himself with the good), either alone or with the elven-smiths, he could very consivably have crafted a ring to RESIST (as opposed to challenge) Sauron. Or a ring to of light powerful enough to usurp the One Ring's dark power... and so on...

With more knowledge of, and experts in, ring-lore active in Middle-earth, who knows what magical powers there might've been to behold? Perhaps even a magic ring arms race...