Orcs... were elves?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

The orcs are a hybrid, bastard race drawn from ruined Elves, enslaved men, beasts, unnatural arts and perhaps another race (or races?) of beings that he found and took for his own. This might also help explain where there is such a diversity of forms, sizes, abilities, types and races among the orcs...

Could there even be Hobbit derived Orcses? Such an Orc might be a narfforc - only he can answer that one.

Originally Posted by davem

Of course, Elves are 'angelic' beings & Orcs could fit well into the Fallen Angel/demon role.

Now davem has been cheeky about me and I no longer have the opportunity to sneak something nasty in his evening meal I shall just argue with him. I'm not at all sure we could call Elves 'angelic beings' at all. They are symbolic of men as they might be, but not divine. The only Elves who might even approach being Divine are the Eldar, and I am not even sure about them to be honest. Arda already has the Valar and Maiar, just how many angelic beings can it hold?

I also like the idea that Orcs are bred from several races, as it does allow for the many varieties. But if they were descended from Elves it also makes for a lot of interesting possibilities - e.g. could the Elvish nature be entirely taken form them? Were they immortal? What happened when they died? etc.

Possibly the reason Tolkien gradually shied away from having his Orcs derive from Elves was his semmingly growing need to make his work more 'divine', as shown in his later rewrites of Galadriel's character and nature. I happen to think that he had it right with LOTR. The Orcs being descended from Elves does not diminish Elves, rather it makes a greater tragedy that these beings could be reduced to such an existence. I suppose in that sense, if they were angelic then it would deepen that tragedy even more.