Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[Kath]

Mum, Dad? Now where have they disappeared off to?

Well, Day 1 has barely begun and we seem to have arguments already. Going to have to watch this Loki fellow I think, certainly a snapper! And morm already gunning for Eomer's death. It's all go around here!

But it is getting late for me, so I think I'd better pack myself off to bed before I get grounded. Til tomorrow (RL)!

[Alcarillo]

Ah! What woe! Our poor Elempi is dead! What grief! I remember those days we rhymed together in the square, I with my sea chanteys and he with his limericks. But now these days are gone!

Originally Posted by Celuien

That Eomer though. Imagine him courting my daughter without so much as a word to her father or mother. ‘Tis most shocking behavior and speaks to some mischief. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he did turn out to have lupine tendencies.

Though his mother may have raised him to be a lady-killer, I did not raise my son to be a murderer! I will stand by my family.

Originally Posted by morm

I've never trusted that Eomer and I would suspect him of Lycanthropy at best but more than likely he's the evil wizard. I say we kill him! Plus this will prevent him from marrying into my family.

What, my son not good enough for your granddaughter? Is that it?!

I've got my eyes on you, gramps. Your entire family reeks of werewolvery to me.

Originally Posted by Diamond

Alcarillo ~ Is sick. Sick sick SICK.

Cailín ~ Completely innocent of everything but marrying Alc and giving birth to Phantom and Eomer, folly which will surely be punished by a lynching.

And now my wife is threatened! I swear...

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

And now my wife is threatened! I swear...

Actually I did not mean it a threat, per se, more as a prediction. Let us hope that many of my predictions were overly dire and don't come true. I've considered myself a friend of your wife these many years, especially since both your sons have shown interest in my daughters from time to time. Many afternoons were spent drinking tea and eating honeycakes while clucking our tongues and gossiping about the antics of our children. By the way, if you see your elder son any time soon tell him that if he wants to court my Zali he'd better keep away from Evil Wizards, or he'll have hell to pay!

[Diamond18]

Regarding the matter of Loki being the villager changed and un-changed last night:

It's altogether possible that the Evil Wizard would choose Loki in hopes that his newbie status would grant him safety from lynching. I can't say that I think the EW would be very smart to do this, because Loki is highly vocal and likes rubbing people the wrong way -- and make no mistake such things do come into play for lynchings, especially in a Day 1 situation. I certainly have no qualms about the idea of lynching him, he's eager enough to show us all how good he is at the game so I don't see the need to give him the benefit of the doubt like I would a newbie who seemed quiet or shy. But, oh well, who am I to tell the EW how to play? So it is entirely possible.

It's also possible that the Good Wizard decided to scry him as well. Perhaps s/he was counting on Loki not being an attractive Werewolf kill -- from a Wolfish point of view his brashness could provide plenty of distraction for the villagers to fight over, and so they'd leave him alive. From the GW's PoV, this might be a good reason to Gift him -- he has a very good chance of surviving the Nights. So the GW tries to Gift him and instead un-curses him. All entirely plausible.

However, even though it's possible and I can certainly see the reasoning of both Wizards, I can't accept it as fact just because Loki claimed it. He could be lying. He could be telling the truth. We have no way of knowing, besides a lynching.

EDIT: Actually, silly Diamond, even a lynching wouldn't tell us that. Loki could easily come up as an Ordo and still have been lying, for whatever reason. So I amend my final comment to: "We have no way of knowing, till the end of the game."

[Celuien]

I'm not sure. Loki's...ahem...self-assuredness isn't entirely inconsistent with his legendary debates with the phantom. His behavior today certainly set off alarm bells for me, but because it is sort of what I expected to see, I'd rather adopt a wait and see attitude for my part.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Celuien

I'm not sure. Loki's...ahem...self-assuredness isn't entirely inconsistent with his legendary debates with the phantom.

Actually, Mrs. SpM, I was going to ask my husband about that matter, and forgot, thank you for reminding me.

Noggins: Why exactly do you think Loki has changed since before the death of Elempi? (Poor Papa! *sniff*) The well known spat he had with Cai and Alc's boy (always was getting into trouble, that one -- Zali, what do you see in him??) made me expect to see more of the same... and... well basically I'm a little flummoxed by your talk of a different style, because I've also seen what I expected. *nods to Mrs. SpM*

There you were mostly challenging everyone. So why not anymore?

He's been challenging you, my dear jester! That's why I find this comment rather strange.

[the phantom]

How sad. I rather liked Elempi. He always made me laugh.

But don't go accusing my brother. I'll admit, Eomer is a bit of scoundrel, but he's also a good man at heart. Not only that, but I would know if he had been up and about last night- he's my room mate.

Now, about Loki's claim. Maybe we should just leave it alone for the time being. The GW is bound to reveal him/herself soon, and will no doubt tell us the truth of this matter. Until such time, I see no overwhelming reason to believe or disbelieve Loki.

Now, at this time I'd just like to say that Diamond is making a lot of sense, besides being very lovely.
*hopes flattery will soften Zali's mother up*

And I'd better not hear a word against Zali from anyone. According to my stories I've heard of Werewolves, Zali can't be cursed because of... er, because of... her... extreme hotness.

Yes! That's right- I've read that ridiculously beautiful people can't become Werewolves, because.... Werewolves.... are ugly.
*hopes that sounded convincing*

[JennyHallu]

Mercy me! Our dear Elempi...what a shame. I always did tell you though, no good comes of meddling in furrin places. But my thoughts are with your family, Diamond, even if you did go and get married to a fool. At least you never take any nonsense.

Now, I've got a big house to take care of, and my dear old dad will be needing his supper, so I'm not going to be around much for a few hours. But you can be sure that I will be around and alert in a little while here. I've got my eye on you!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Now, at this time I'd just like to say that Diamond is making a lot of sense, besides being very lovely.
*hopes flattery will soften Zali's mother up*

Flattery, as a rule, will get you everywhere. But if I find that you had anything to do with my father's death (anything!) even the most honeyed words will avail you none. Got that? Good.

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Actually I did not mean it a threat, per se, more as a prediction. Let us hope that many of my predictions were overly dire and don't come true. I've considered myself a friend of your wife these many years, especially since both your sons have shown interest in my daughters from time to time. Many afternoons were spent drinking tea and eating honeycakes while clucking our tongues and gossiping about the antics of our children.

Comforting words. I'm glad somebody approves of my son. *glares at morm and Celuien*

By the way, if you see your elder son any time soon tell him that if he wants to court my Zali he'd better keep away from Evil Wizards, or he'll have hell to pay!

I can assure you that Cailin and I allow absolutely no black magic in our household.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

That gives me an idea. We have to find those wizards. Well, maybe not 'those' wizards so much as a wizard. It'd be pretty hard to find both, but we don't have to. Think about it. If we try to lynch the Evil Wizard and thus reveal him, then the Good Wizard can call him out and kill him. Then we can concentrate on finding all the wolves that will be running around. Conversely, if we accidentally try to lynch the Good Wizard, then we will know who he is and be able to follow his lead. The Evil Wizard won't be too eager to battle him, as his [the EW's] strength lies in surviving for long enough to make lots of wolves.

It would be much harder on us if we lynch the Good Wizard (no new gifteds, for one thing), so I would focus primarily on hunting down the Evil Wizard to stop the cursings.

So, in summary, I think we should aim to lynch people who would not be obvious Seer choices. And on that note, I think we should look at Naria or Alcarillo or Azaelia or Lommy or Lalaith.

You want to lynch me?! I have to be careful of what I say from now on...

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

It would be much harder on us if we lynch the Good Wizard (no new gifteds, for one thing), so I would focus primarily on hunting down the Evil Wizard to stop the cursings.

Well, even if we did attempt to lynch the Good Wizard, we can't kill him. So basically we would only force him out, but I don't think that that really hurts us.

So phatom, if werewolves are ugly, how about you take off that burly cloak and show us how you look...

But I'm inclined to agree with you about Azaelia, though, despite her being on my little maybe-to-lynch-toDay list above. But it's not because she's so beautiful... *trys to think of another reason*... uhm... ( )

[Caranlondien]

Well, Gurthang's idea of searching for the evil wizard seems to make sense to me. We must help our good wizard in his/her search! As for the danger of accidentally stumbling upon the good wizard and revealing him/her, it seems to me that by the time the evil wizard would be in such a position that he/she would actually want to challenge the good wizard (i.e., by the time our poor village has been overrun by werewolves), chances are that the evil wizard would have found the good wizard on his/her own, anyway.

An aside: Blast these pronouns! I just don't want to unconsciously make assumptions about the genders of the wizards...

[the phantom]

Gurthang, you speak wise words. Trying to lynch the wizards isn't a bad idea. The GW won't stay hidden for long, so it won't hurt too much to reveal him/her. However, I think we can do better than lynching the GW. The GW and EW will likely have different playing strategies. I won't go into detail now, but there are certain things that will likely define the way the GW and EW post during the day, and we can use those behaviors as a guideline, making it more likely we will lynch the EW than the GW.

Every night, the GW has a chance of scrying the EW or scrying the same person the EW curses, and the Seer has a chance of spotting the EW. On top of that, if we villagers try our best to lynch the EW every day, that will give us three chances per cycle of catching the treacherous villain.

Honestly, catching an independent EW is no more difficult than catching wolves right now in a way, because though the wolves are "on the same team", they are likely clueless as to the identity of his/her wolvish counterpart, thus they will not be supporting each other or functioning as a team in any way.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

I do not think we should worry about Saucepan Man. Here's why: Even if he is turned into a wolf (which would be the only reason we would want to lynch him) then he'll probably be revealed sooner rather than later anyway. That's because any good Seer will dream of him first (or close to that). So, if the Seer will dream of him, then we'll have a good way of figuring out if he's a wolf or not.

I believe you speak truth. If you ask me, Sauce and I (and some others, perhaps, such as morm, Eomer, and Firefoot) will not be turned into a Werewolf early in the contest. The longer one is a wolf, the better chance there is of getting caught, especially if the Wolf is a likely Seer/GW target. If the EW wants to curse me (or one of the others I named), it would make much more sense for him/her to do so late in the game, right before the death of the wizards.

Also, don't bother looking for clues from the Seer. The Seer will no doubt be passing on all dream info to the GW, and leave it to him/her to divulge. The primary goal of the Seer is to avoid being killed and continue nightly activities. Unfortunately, this is identical to the goal of the EW, and so if we adopt Gurthang's plan of trying to lynch the EW, we might lynch the Seer by mistake.

(and no, I don't believe Gurthang had this in mind when he recommended it)

No matter how this village fares, we are likely to see a lot of death in the coming weeks. In my many travels I've heard stories of events such as these, and few of them ended well, and the ones that did- there weren't many left to celebrate. I, myself, fully expect to die before the end. But no matter. Let us all keep a stiff upper lip through these events, and not allow grief to stop us from doing our duty- stopping this tide of evil here and now! If we fail, there is no telling how far the evil will spread.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by tp

I won't go into detail now, but there are certain things that will likely define the way the GW and EW post during the day, and we can use those behaviors as a guideline, making it more likely we will lynch the EW than the GW.

Well, I'll be on pins and needles to hear this... I've been giving it some thought and haven't really come up with any good ideas about what sorts of posting may indicate Wizadry. I kind of expect the Evil Wizard to be quiet, though, since most of his/her activity will take place during the Night and the less noticable s/he makes his/herself during the Day the less chance s/he'll have of being dreamt about. But "quiet" can often describe a good many players, so I'm feeling a bit vague on that score.

I must say, to discover the Evil Wizard toDay or next Night would be excellent luck for the village, since there are only two Werewolves and a massive amount of villagers. I really don't think the wolves could stand such odds; though they might be able to hide among the masses for a while, eventually I expect their luck would run out.

[Firefoot]

My grandfather dead? This is an outrage! We must have vengeance on these terrible wolves. I must say that I slept quite soundly last night, with no one in our house going in and out; I do believe that they are quite innocent until I receve clear evidence otherwise. And why would we murder our own kin? Now the question is, who would?

Now, that Loki, he's a pretty shady character.

And Eomer and phantom... can't say I quite trust either of them. They've certainly been known for mischief before now.

That Oddwen has always been a rather strange child as well; can't say I'd quite trust her, nor her aunt, letting her carry on with those antics of hers.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Originally Posted by Kath

Mum, Dad? Now where have they disappeared off to?

You naughty, wayward child! Go to your room! *followed by an admirable gesture of command*

Why don't you try to be like your brother, Gurthang. He was the same age as you when he obtained our clan's bloodline ability. Now he's a . . . stable hand?

Wrong universe, bucko.

Right. Enedwaith, what's all these talk about the Good and Evil Wizard? Haven't you heard of the third Wizard? The unsung hero of the ages?

I AM THE WIZARD OF APATHY.

Now, there's no need to thank me or worship me. I just want to read your posts in peace, before I vote for . . .

You think I'd vote for myself, now that I have a family? You must have boulders in your head!!!

Oh, yes, you still will. You can't resist it.

We'll see about that . . .

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I rather agree with Gurthang about going after the Wizards, preferably the Evil one.

Originally Posted by phantom

And so, since he cannot be lynched, cannot be killed by wolves, and cannot be cursed by the EW, the Good Wizard fears NOTHING!

Still, the GW is concerned to leave the Village with three Gifteds when the time of the Wizards' battle comes.

The EW may want to make as many wolves as s/he can before the Wizards kill one another, but then again, the more there are Wolves the easier it is to find one. At that point the Wolves already know each other and killing one will hopefully give us clues to catch the rest of them, too.

I think it's a bigger blow to the Village to be left without all three Gifteds and fewer wolves than with a fully functioning trio of gifts and a wolf or two more.

Now, phantom makes the situation sound pretty bright for us, but that's what the Evil Wizard would like to do; to make the Villagers believe that we don't have much to be scared of. I agree that if we accidentally stumble across the GW, it's not a fatal error, but then the EW has the ability to decide when it's time to get back to the basic WW again, and that could be a big advantage.

Originally Posted by Cailín

What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps.

Indeed.

[Lhunardawen]

dancing spawn, you had me thinking.

You're right. I'm sure the EW would rather have his wolves not know each other to make it easier for them to slip past us. So, again, we can say that he fears death.

But for the innocents, we'd want to have all gifteds and wolves who know each other: regular Werewolf dynamics. So it would serve us best to have the Wizards done with, even the GW so long as he has given out all gifts.

It's entirely up to the GW, but I think it would be a good idea for him to reveal himself (again, if this is legal) once all the gifts have been assigned. If the EW won't call him out to battle, at least we'll have someone trustworthy to follow.

And now that I've thought of it, bluffing as the GW won't work, either.

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

But for the innocents, we'd want to have all gifteds and wolves who know each other: regular Werewolf dynamics. So it would serve us best to have the Wizards done with, even the GW so long as he has given out all gifts.

This was more or less my line of thought when I first said we needed to find one (preferably the Evil) wizard. One can't die without the other also doing so, and finding either one may help speed up when their simultaneous(sp?) deaths occur, thus leaving us with less werewolves to deal with.

Saucepan, you are basically thinking along the same lines that I was. At least saying that wizards would choose someone who is unlikely to be lynched early and either unlikely to be dreamed of or unlikely to be killed by werewolves.

Which is, ironically, saying that we should be looking for those of less 'ww repute'. Not a pleasant thing to be accusing people of. In fact, I'm entirely offended that I am even considered on you list. ( )

But alas, I really must get back to my stable handing... Which means a vote. Let's see what I can rummage together.

Here:

++Thinlómien

since she comes last aphabetically in the 'list' I made up earlier.

[Firefoot]

Which is, ironically, saying that we should be looking for those of less 'ww repute'. Not a pleasant thing to be accusing people of.

Less repute, or people who just generally don't arouse a lot of suspicion. Which is why I'm not surprised to be on SpM's list. People don't like to lynch me. And on this list of people, I probably would not be one of the first seer dreams, either.

So despite my being on it, I rather agree with SpM's proposition. Even if it only does only knock out about half the people, I think it's a good place to start - at least for Day 1. (Hopefully SpM is not the EW...)

[Thinlómien]

I would rather not have people voting preventively, with reasons "oh, the EW might have chosen him/her, since s/he is so xxx" or "s/he's too dangerous if s/he is turned into a lycantrophe, let's kill him/her". That's so wrong that it screams.

I think we should preferably look at the actions of people (I know it's difficult on day 1), since we really can't predict the wizard tactics (or at least I can't). Spawn has made interesting observations on Lhuna. I think she's a good example of how we should/could play.

I fear we might be blinded by our expectations and presumptions on what the EW would do.

edit: x-posted with Firefoot and Gurthang's newer post

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I've to go, since I've got a memoir to write. It's called the Book of Nilpaurion and it'll be available in bookstores Yavannië neldë.

I'm pretty confident about my vote, though.

++Nogrod

Surprise, surprise! Not a self-vote! See you tomorrow, I hope.

[Celuien]

Nilp didn't vote for himself? I think I'll faint.

Some interesting things have happened since I was away. Will return in a bit with thoughts.

[Lhunardawen]

I shouldn't even be here this late. Next time I hope you're ready for really early votes. Like seven hours into the game.

Now, hmm. I'm tempted to vote for Nilp 'cause he voted for my dad. That, and he didn't vote for himself.

Aha!

++EOMER OF THE ROHIRRIM

because he has a great propensity for evil. And he left me just when I was prepared to marry him. Take this!

[The Saucepan Man]

This is a terrible blow to our village, and my thoughts are with Diamond18 and her kin. A sad loss indeed. And now, we have to do our best to find the culprits, as the Watchers have bade us do. I am sorry that I have not been able to contribute so far, but my duties at the tavern have kept me busy.

I bid you all come to the Salty Seal, where we may discuss these things in comfort and with a drink to strengthen our spirits. I shall not charge thee on a day such as this (provided you do not seek to take advantage).

Were I to let petty vengeances guide my thoughts, I would be looking towards mormegil and Eomer. Mormegil has always thought his daughter too good for a lowly innkeeper such as me and has never approved of the match. And Eomer, the rogue, is presumptious enough to court my beloved daugher, Kitanna, without first seeking my permission.

Yet it is not village affairs that have guided the Evil Wizard’s hand, I am sure, but cold, hard logic. And that is what I intend to use to counter him (or her).

As others have intimated, we must bear in mind that these beasts were not randomly chosen, as in the tales of old, but hand selected by the Evil Wizard. Were I him, I would not have chosen those who, by virtue of their reputation or ancestry, were likely to be the subject of a Seerish dream on the first Night or who are likely targets for a lynching on the first Day. On this basis, a number of villagers can, I think,be discounted as unlikely choices by the Evil Wizard.

And, much as I would like to see the back of him for his antagonistic behaviour and insufferable gloating, I doubt that Loki would have been a great choice for the Evil Wizard. His reputation, even before this Day, makes him a quite likely candidate for lynching. Then again, one motive for claiming to be the de-Werewolved villager would be to divert attention from himself. If that was his intention, then it has backfired. Nevertheless, I will disegard him for today, based on my reasoning above.

Were I the Evil Wizard, I would have chosen from the following villagers:

Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Celuien, Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Firefoot, Diamond and Gurthang.

That doesn’t narrow things down as much as I would like. However, I suspect that the Evil Wizard, if applying his or her mind, will have selected villagers with different styles. Based on my knowledge of them, and the tales of their ancestors’ exploits, I would divide them as follows, and assume that the Evil Wizard would select one Wolf from each grouping:

1 of Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien or Celuien
1 of Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, or Alcarillo
1 of Roa, Firefoot, Diamond or Gurthang

One Wolf, we know, was turned back, which paradoxically makes things more difficult, even if my reasoning is on course (and there’s no guarantee that it is, or that the Evil Wizard would think like me).

And of course, that does not help us find the Evil Wizard and I agree that anything that we can do to unmask him (or her) will be worthwhile. More thoughts on that anon.

[The Saucepan Man]

Gurthang was, I think, the first to bring up the idea of looking for the Wizards. My initial reaction was to suspect him for it. I still do, slightly, since he was talking about finding both Wizards. I think we should, as far as we can, try to avoid identifying the Good Wizard, at this stage at least. With no Gifteds and two Wolves to hide among a great number of villagers, the Evil Wizard might fancy his/her chances at this point and call the Good Wizard out. Even if s/he does not, identifying the GW would still allow the EW to pick his/her time, provided s/he remains hidden. For this reason, I am also wary of Lhuna’s suggestion that the GW might want to declare today.

The plan has, however, been somewhat refined since Gurthang’s initial suggestion. As the phantom and others have helpfully pointed out (and it speaks in their favour), the GW and the EW have different objectives, different fears and therefore, in all likelihood, will exhibit different styles.

The difficulty in spotting the EW is that s/he will be doing his/her best to remain hidden and not to stir up controversy. Or at least to behave as we would expect him/her to, so as not to draw attention to him/herself. That in itself may help us in finding him/her.

Originally Posted by Caílin

What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps.

This perhaps is the best thing we have to go on at the moment. It applies, of course, to both Wizards, and so we must be careful that it does not lead us to reveal the Good Wizard. Yet each will have been selected to be either Good or Evil, so there may be something to go on here.

I must, alas, depart for a few hours, but I hope to return in a few hours.

[Diamond18]

Well, I'm glad to see I'm not going to be the first out of the voting blocks, I thought that by voting a good 9 hours early I'd be kicking things off. But, what's all this?

Originally Posted by the Nilpster

I'm pretty confident about my vote, though.

++Nogrod

Attacking my hubby, eh? Lynching my jester, eh? Battledores, attack!

Actually, I can't fault you too much. There were a few things that felt a little off about my Noggie before he disappeared (wherever DID he go?) and that fact alone is very odd for him. He's usually in the thick of it.... Morm is another one who has been more quiet than I'm used to, as the mayor of our fine town he usually has quite a bit to say about the affairs therein. I have not the time to count the exact number of times he has spoken up, but I think it was just the once. Very odd.

However, I'm not voting for either of those chaps.

+ + LOKI

Maybe he's the one scried by the GW, but then again, maybe he ain't.

Frankly, there is no one else at this early point that I'd rather see gone. Without more than niggling suspicions I don't feel comfortable campaigning for the death of any of my family and friends, so yes, Loki is getting the outsider vote. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt (I've never voted for a first timer before) if it weren't for his general churlishness.

And now, I must bit good day and head off to the battledore shop. The demand for battledores in this village is ridiculous, everyone must have really dusty rugs. In fact, I'll be spending the afternoon beating rugs. What a fun thought.

I am sorry to my family that I won't be able to do as I'd hoped, that is, help spare you at a crticial time if anyone tries to lynch you. But being the provider for this family (I'm wondering now why my husband gets to retire while I continue to toil!) I cannot slack off and let them go hungry. If I do that the terror... er, I mean, werewolves... will have won!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Piracy? Well, I have sailed on numerous voyages to distant and debatable lands; and, like most people, I've dabbled in a bit of jewel-trading. That's all in the past, though. Mormegil, venerable man, and Good Saucepan Man and beautiful Lady Celuien, I meant not to show disrespect to your family; but Kitanna and I, our destiny is to be together! Won't you bless us? Because, you know, this village might only last a few more days, and weddings are mighty complicated to arrange.

Wizards, eh? Well, it would appear that someone in this village is especially desirable: wanted by both sorcerers. Who is that desirable? For the EW primarily wants his wolves, and the GW wants a good gifted as well as the EW.

An all-round talented player, who is confident enough to school him/herself in magic [read: asked to be a wizard]

To my mind, that narrows it down. I've found a couple of these early votes to be somewhat inappropriate.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Piracy? Well, I have sailed on numerous voyages to distant and debatable lands; and, like most people, I've dabbled in a bit of jewel-trading. That's all in the past, though. Mormegil, venerable man, and Good Saucepan Man and beautiful Lady Celuien, I meant not to show disrespect to your family; but Kitanna and I, our destiny is to be together! Won't you bless us? Because, you know, this village might only last a few more days, and weddings are mighty complicated to arrange.

You've quite a long way to go, young man, ere I will lend my support to your cause. Though I will confess, I am not wholly unsympathetic, my own romance having been frowned upon in my younger days. We shall see.

Originally Posted by SPM

The difficulty in spotting the EW is that s/he will be doing his/her best to remain hidden and not to stir up controversy. Or at least to behave as we would expect him/her to, so as not to draw attention to him/herself. That in itself may help us in finding him/her.

That does seem the wisest move for the EW. As the phantom pointed out, once found, the GW may have good reason to call an early challenge and prevent werewolf population expansion. Though I would not expect a too early challenge.

We still have no gifteds. But after night four, when the gifted population could be complete and the werewolves have reached (let me count now: 2 currently, one added toNIGHT (and one gifted), 3 tomorrow night and one more added (two gifteds) and 4 the night after, plus one more (three gifteds)) for 5 wolves to 3 gifteds, then the time might be right for a challenge. Assuming that the wizards don't choose the same villager again, of course, and that no un-gifting/cursing occurs.

To make it even more difficult to flush out the EW, we can't even count on a defense of his/her creatures from him/her. The wolves s/he curses are expendable so long as the wolf under attack isn't the last one. Killed wolves can be replaced overnight, so why bother to save them in the day and risk a self-exposure?

I hesitate to discuss wizard spotting strategies further since they could equally be applied to the GW. While the phantom has a point about the GW having little to fear, I for one would not want to risk inadvertently exposing the GW to the EW prematurely.

Now, I'm not really excited about voting for anyone who has been proposed so far. While I'm itching to give that rascally Loki a piece of my mind (), I'm unwilling to vote for him before he has a chance to prove himself in the village. I am puzzled a little by his declaration, since I find its veracity lacking, but it seems an unwolf like thing to do as it guarantees attention. I think that, like his trickster namesake, he's sowing confusion. Which irritates me, but is not grounds for me to vote for him. Yet.

Now I must be off. My store of herbs is low and needs replenishing. I'll return in a few hours.

[Caranlondien]

The voting thus far:
1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)

I know the Day is young yet and these votes may give little indication as to how the Day will end, but I need to start the list for my own sanity. What with such a large village, I very quickly begin to forget who's voted for whom.

Now, as for the talk so far, I've chimed in with my opinion (that we ought to look for the EW). I don't think, though, that the GW should declare him/herself. It's up to his/her discretion when to declare, and until then, it's best to stay hidden, in case the EW gets into a good position to challenge before the GW does.

My own suspicions? Well, Loki's behavior seems strange. By "strange behavior", just to clarify, I mean the subtley made claim that he was cursed and un-cursed, and his somewhat abrasive reactions to people's passing comments. However, my suspicions of him may be mainly just because I can't find anyone else to suspect. He's the only one who has really stood out so far, and that itself casts him in slightly a better light, as it would be risky for a wolf to stand out that way.

I also find Lhuna's suggestion about the GW revealing him/herself slightly odd. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me (see above).

OOC Note: Cross-posted with a bunch of people, as I've been working on this on and off for a while due to a rather interesting computer situation...