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#1 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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The first things that come into my mind, in random order, serious and less serious:
1) Tolkien wanted to continue with the familiar character he was maybe fond of or he needed Gandalf as a starting element in the story. Later, he just couldn't kill him. Our tender-hearted professor... 2) Wise Gandalf from Valinor is always around, and then he leaves without ever coming back to Middle-Earth. This strongly contributes to the theme of passing away and that people (hobbits, Aragorn) should do things themselves, not always wait for someone (Gandalf) to be helping them. 3) Gandalf's existence is nearly essential in Saruman's drama, and you wouldn't like to drop Saruman out, would you? 4) The good guys need a figurehead that matches the nazgûl. 5) Someone needs to be with the eagles pick Frodo and Sam up from Mt. Doom. 6) Gandalf gets close to the reader at the beginning. He is an important character. If he'd permanently die when there's still 3/4 of the book to go, that would leave the reader with a hollow feeling. (Tolkien wrote the story to himself, yes, I know, but he wouldn't have made a modern-style or poor story.)
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#2 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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I'm not sure how much these comments will relate to Anguirel's fascinating topic, but here goes.
As a reader, I've never really been especially enamoured of Gandalf the White. Gandalf the Grey is an intriguing mix of character. He's the tricksome wizard who folks in The Shire don't trust--and he plays up that role. He's the enigmatic mentor of Frodo. He's a mysterious, conflicted sort who doesn't see through Saruman until too late. He has this power, but must not use it. Who can handle that kind of self-control? And he's immensely important in explaining what the terrible appeal of the Ring is. In short, Gandalf the Grey is both a multi-layered character and a narrative necessity. Once Gandalf the White comes back, to me at least, he is far less interesting. His cover is blown. He can come out shootin and that ironically limits his field of operation. All the strategic worrying at things and about things is reduced to flat out frowning about how Frodo is doing. Of course, maybe this is an extreme confession of my pyschological quirkiness: give me a Grey Eminence anyday rather than the Sun King! ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#3 |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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I believe one key aspect that is a factor in Gandalf returning is demonstrating that the Valar are extending a hand of fellowship, so to speak, to men; specifically extending their hand of friendship again to the remnant of Numenor. Numenor, initially had the friendship and grace of the Valar and that is what made them great. Aragorn needed a hand extended to him if they were ever to be great again. Gandalf was sent to aid man, which he did and wouldn’t have been able to had he, alone of the Istari, not completed the task that was assigned to their order.
Secondly, and along the same line, Aragorn wasn’t fully ready to become king. He had too much self doubt. Gandalf, by his return, was able to alleviate that. To me Gandalf the White needed to return to make sure that men were put on the right path. This is brief but it’s a couple of the thoughts I’ve had.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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#4 |
Dead Serious
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In tandem, I think, with Morm's thoughts, Gandalf' return was necessary as a sign of the importance of the battle against Sauron. Without Gandalf, the battle is something of a "small nations vs. Mighty Aggressor" sort of battle. Honourable, to be sure, and definitely worthy and in need of fighting.
With Gandalf the White there, however, the battle takes on a more... how shall I say it?.. spiritual dimension. It ceases to be merely "good guys vs. bad guys" and becomes Good vs. Evil. Without Gandalf, we lose the potent symbolism of White against Black. Also, Gandalf's power acts to help us see the sheer power of Sauron. Without Gandalf, Sauron's defeat at the hands of a Hobbit merely goes to show that he is fallible and defeatable, that he was defeated by a "mere" Hobbit. Gandalf's presence, however, since we are shown his great power and authority, highlights Sauron's own power, since Gandalf finds himself with his hands full against the Witchking. This, in turn, makes the defeat of Sauron that much more eucatastrophic, since we are more clearly aware of just how powerful Sauron (and the Ring) is. Continuing with the idea of spiritual importance, Gandalf is a clear symbol of there being a "Greater Power" involved- whether you're considering this greater power to be just the Valar, or Eru Himself. This is in agreement with Tolkien's strong Catholic feelings. The fight of Good is aided by above. We are not just fighting on our own, or for ourselves, but on behalf of Good everywhere. Without Gandalf the White, the Lord of the Rings loses the integral sense that it has of Right vs. Wrong. And I agree with Anguirel that this makes it different from the Silmarillion. But it is a NECESSARY and INTENDED difference. The War of the Jewels, though a war of good vs. evil is NOT a war of Right vs. Wrong. The Eldar, though they remain the good guys, are essentially waging an unsanctioned war- a war that should have had the support of the Valar to be truly Right. That is why they continued to suffer defeat, and why it wasn't until Eärendil sought forgiveness of the Valar, so to speak, that Morgoth could be defeated. It wasn't until the Noldor recieve the pardon of the Valar that they were morally Right- and thus received the "help form above" that was necessary to defeat evil.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#5 |
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
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I think a key point is that men (or elves, dwarves, etc.) cannot defeat a force like Sauron's (especially with Sauron, an Ainu, in leadership). Gandalf the White and the Eagles are intentionally placed; they are reminders that man cannot do it alone, and that Eru has not simply created the world and ignored it since. He does not leave it without his own representatives and influence, when necessary. This also happened at the end of The Silmarillion - Eonwe and his army have to give the Children a push and accomplish things that would've been unsuccessful otherwise.
In both instances, the Children were matched with adversaries far greater in strength. I think that fact is unsettling to readers. 'Over the bridge!' cried Gandalf, recalling his strength. 'Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way. Fly!' 'What hope have we without you?' - Aragorn
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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#6 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Looking at this from a view of what simple pleasure I got from the books, I am certainly glad that Gandalf came back. I can see that Tolkien could have made a worthwhile point about the bravery of Men and Hobbits and the transition into the 'age of Men' by having them figure out how to beat Sauron by themselves, but there is something essentially fantastic about having a wizard throughout the story. Gandalf adds more simple magic to the tale, and when he 'dies' in Moria, it provides some suspense for the reader. I am sure I'm not alone in being horribly disappointed when in the Arthurian tales, Merlin is trapped by Nimue. The wizard, and hence all the magic, has gone!
![]() I felt this way a little about the death of Smaug in The Hobbit. Wizards and Dragons are essentially wonderful, and putting aside plot and style and theme, appeal to me on a fundamental level. I have a sneaking suspicion Tolkien felt the same way and so would have been unable to kill off Gandalf even if he had wanted to. Maybe that is why he does come back to us. I wonder if HoME says anything about this? ![]()
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Gordon's alive!
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#7 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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We all love a reverend, wise wizard charchter in a story!
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Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia |
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#8 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I'm not sure Tolkien ever intended that Gandalf should die in Moria. Clearly we (as the Fellowship) are meant to think he died, but from my reading of HoM-e I can't see any point at which Tolkien thought that he had killed him off & then changed his mind. He even puzzles over how to account convincingly for his reappearance: 'How does Gandalf reappear?' (The Story Foreseen from Moria, HoM-e vol 7). Also Vol 6 'The Mines of Moria:
Quote:
The intention always seems to have been that Gandalf would be around to play a major part in the Fall of Sauron. He just had to figure out how to separate him from the Company & probably to enhance his power. |
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