Survivor: The Second Age

[Eonwe]

And why is that SpM? I don't really see that Suaron gained all that much by his Ring. Ringwraiths, sure. But if he didn't have them, he would have found someone just as worthy of being his second in command. His control over the Dwarves is, I guess, a bonus for the Ring, but the free world did just fine without them (or would have, if Isildur had been a wise man). The Three were used to greatly influence the world for good during the Watchful Peace.

Not to mention, if there had been no One Ring, Isildur never would have defeated Sauron, and Sam and Frodo never could have defeated him either. So.....

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Not to mention, if there had been no One Ring, Isildur never would have defeated Sauron, and Sam and Frodo never could have defeated him either. So.....

Actually, without the One Ring, Sauron would never have been able to resume physical form following his flight from Numenor drowned.

Yes, that Celebrimbor's certainly got a lot to answer for ...

[Mithalwen]

However no One ring is not the same as no Sauron. If Sauron hadn't concentrated so much of his power in a easily portable device which was also easily losable preventing him from exercising fully it for large chunks of time, things could have been a lot worse. Actually I have some sympathy with Sauron on that aspect - it seemed such a good idea to keep stuff on a data stick rather than an A5 filofax apart from the data stick being so easily mislaid in comparison to the slab of a book.

So Celebrimbor's gimmick was probably a good thing and it led to the creation of Imladris which is definitely a good thing.

Leave Celebrian alone - doesn't she have enough to cope with? She was not a queen by marriage - she wasn't a queen at all save in name but as Galadriel's daughter she was hardly the beggar bride. And it is rather nasty to blame the victim for the assault..... she was only visiting her mum like a good daughter And it must be a bit tough to be the daughter and mother of apparently the two most beautiful elf women and never get a mention.... it rather implies the looks skipped a generation and she looked like her pa. My only caveat would be the way her boys turned out. They really should have got over the dressing the sameway thing several millenia before the WotR and the way that chieftains of the Dunedain came to premature deaths in their company I find a little worrying. I just think of the Kray twins ..bloodthirsty and devoted to their Ma.....

Anarion is just a non-entity really.

++Anarion

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Mithalwen makes a good point about
Sauron having more power without the ring's
creation, but then, it was his idea both to
encourage the ringmaking and make his own
One Ring to...yadda, yadda, yadda.