Survivor: The Second Age

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

You can't vote off the Witch-King simply because he's evil.

Says who, eh wot?

I can vote for the Witch-King because he's evil if I so desire. It's supported by Tolkien. Therefore it counts.

Previous games mean naught to me because I did not play in them. I suspect they wouldn't even if I had.

All lovers of good and defenders of Celebrian, unite!

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Says who, eh wot?

I can vote for the Witch-King because he's evil if I so desire. It's supported by Tolkien. Therefore it counts.

Previous games mean naught to me because I did not play in them. I suspect they wouldn't even if I had.

All lovers of good and defenders of Celebrian, unite!

He's evil. I suppose you'd vote someone off if they were black too, huh? "He's evil." This is survivor, that arguement doesn't work. Who cares if he's evil? This is survivor. This isn't moral views TV, this is survivor. If we use the whole "they ar3 evil!!1" arguement the winner of the show will be the person who did the least and would be most likely to die. Therefore, they wouldn't be the actual survivor. They would only live because the others were killed off by an outside force.

Celebrian did the least and was injured and fled because she couldn't cope. She isn't a survivor, and she should go this time around.

[Eonwe]

1000 Reader, for all your evidence of a great warrior, shred stratagies and whatnot, the Witch King was killed by a woman. I think that should drop him down a few notches on the HossCat Scale, don't you think?

And no, this isn't really Survivor, in that the constestents aren't acutally voting themselves off. If it was, than you would have point. I dunno, I'd have to check with B88, but I think he called it Survivor because it seemed to fit. Obviously, he couldn't leave the whole idea intact. Therefore, it is us voting off people we don't like. And therefore we can vote off the evil if we so choose.

Either way, I still contend that Celebrian is a more worthy Second Ager than the Witch King.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

1000 Reader, for all your evidence of a great warrior, shred stratagies and whatnot, the Witch King was killed by a woman.

So? It's not like women are flies or handicapped. Women have brains, muscles, and the like. They are people who are perfectly capable of fighting and such like men do. Also keep in mind that the Witch-King was just stabbed in the knee by a stealthy hobbit with a blade made to basically zap the Witch-Kings's powers and kill him. In the book, Eowyn didn't spend time taking off her helmet and whatnot, so she was quick to strike and in the movie WiKi was basically made a vegetable after the stab. I don't think that, say, Aragorn would have come out of that situation alive.

I apologize Diamond, it is just that I have seen many things such as "he has bad teeth!" or "She's Christian!" and such effect the judgement of others in real life and exclude and cause problems for kind individuals, many of whom I know. Your claim on why to send off the Witch-King just brought up old memories and that made me angry.The "racist" statement was meant to be more of a "that doesn't matter here" or "just because of this?" thing, like a gay man in the army or Jerry's girlfriend having "man hands" on Seinfeild.

"He's evil" also didn't sound like a solid reason to me. I mean, on mordor fansites you don't really see Aragorn or Gandalf voted out of games like these because their good or a ranger/maia, do you? "He's evil" also sounds more like a secondary detail in matters like these, ex: "Gandalf's a maia."

Once again, sorry.

(Since this doesn't seem to have a basic setting, I thought it was like the island used for the LOTR and Hobbit survivor.)

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

I apologize Diamond, it is just that I have seen many things such as "he has bad teeth!" or "She's Christian!" and such effect the judgement of others in real life and exclude and cause problems for kind individuals. Your claim on why to send off the Witch-King just brought up old memories and that made me angry.The "racist" statement was meant to be more of a "just because of this?" thing, like Jerry's girlfriend having "man hands" on Seinfeild.

The reason I think "he's evil" differs from something such as "he's black" etc. is that being evil is a bad thing. Being black is not. The evildoers such as Sauron and the Witch-King and Morgoth were ultimately the losers in Tolkien's works because not only did they die (as good guys die as well) everything they stood for was defeated as well. In Tolkien's works, good wins out in the end.

Ergo, someone who so obviously lost, not only his personal life but was defeated in his mission, doesn't deserve to win Survivor.

Sure, I think the Witch-King is wicked cool. But he's one of the bad guys, and in Tolkien, the bad guys don't win.

I don't see Celebrian as a final champion. But she should lose out to someone more worthy than the Witch-King -- someone who was also one of the good guys.

Anyway, that's why I think being evil is in itself a good enough reason to vote him off.

I do accept your apology. I just don't take allegations of racism lightly so I had to speak out on it.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Alright, though the fact that he lost doesn't seem like a very good reason either. All of the current survivors have lost something dear to them, putting them in the same boat in a sense. Even though he lost, The Witch-King put up a good fight and his defeat was a honorable one on the battlefield, unlike Morgoth who tried to barter from a corner when he most likely knew that such a thing would not work. The Witch-King fought hard and died trying, a rather "successful" death for a warlord such as him.

Besides, on survivor, the hand of Eru does not reach far enough to cast his judgement. Heck, Sauron, the "whipping boy" of Eru (so to speak,) managed to come in second place in the Sil survivor. If a guy who lost a stronghold to a mere two people, was beaten at the height of his strength by a tired king of men(who was rather old, even for his people) and a (rather weak compared to those before him) king of elves, and suffered a "black comedy" ultimate defeat can come in second on survivor, surely the Witch-King can avoid the hand of Eru.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

He's evil. I suppose you'd vote someone off if they were black too, huh? "He's evil." This is survivor, that arguement doesn't work. Who cares if he's evil? This is survivor. This isn't moral views TV, this is survivor. If we use the whole "they ar3 evil!!1" arguement the winner of the show will be the person who did the least and would be most likely to die. Therefore, they wouldn't be the actual survivor. They would only live because the others were killed off by an outside force.

Celebrian did the least and was injured and fled because she couldn't cope. She isn't a survivor, and she should go this time around.

This is about the most immature post I've read on the 'Downs in a long while.

I'm sorry, but you need to grow up.

And call me a racist again for no good reason and I will notify the Barrow-Wight that you are slandering other members for juvenile reasons.

That's all I have to say. *bows*

[the phantom]

What has Celebrian done to deserve a spot in the final group?

I'm sure she was a great lady and all, but she didn't do anything worthy of being crowned Survivor Champion. The Witch King, on the other hand, terrorized thousands upon thousands over the years and was instrumental in the destruction of Arnor and the near defeat of Gondor.

Anyone who thinks Celebrian is more worthy than The Witch King of being recognized as Survivor Champ needs his or her head examined.

+ + Celebrian