Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIX: Ang Sagang Daga, bow.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Formy

Are they allowed to do that?

Originally Posted by The Mod God

'You shall have two Lovers in this village, one from the ranks of the villagers, and one from the Werewolves. They shall PM each other but once during the DAY and once during the NIGHT, for their love is a secret love, and a deadly one. The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

I see no restriction as to content in this "commandment", so apparently, "yes".

[Naria]

I see no restriction as to content in this "commandment", so apparently, "yes".

I never would have thought that they could do this. It makes matters worse, does it not? With the five of them having the ordo list. Or maybe it should, in theory, make our jobs a little easier--finding slip ups from them. Aaargh!! Thanks Lmp if my head wasn't trapped in a cloud of confusion before, it sure is now.

I'll be back soon.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Wow, amazing what you miss in 12 hours, eh?!

So, what am I thinking? Well, my suspicions are still mainly on Lhuna. I don't think she's explained herself at all well and unless I see something more substantial either 1. in her defence or 2. to incriminate someone else I'll be voting for her before nightfall.

I've had a look back and tried to pick apart anything and everything Ang said, and this is my result: not much! I agree with others who've said that the wolves really need to find the seers if they want to have any real chance of winning this game, and so I can only say- in shameless plagirism of others- that they based their decision on the hedgehogs speaking to him thing ( ). The other possibility is that they just did it at random, in which case my analysis has been for nought.

LMP, I'm very unhappy with you for post #219. If the lovers hadn't thought of this then you must be their favourite person in the whole village right now! Unless, of course, you already shared the information with your unfortunate beau? I don't think so, though. I think you just had an idea, didn't think and posted it. I'm inclined to forgive you, simply because I'm not sure I'd have done any differently myself.

Eonwe's vote is crazy. Two days, two thoroughly random votes. Is he a caution-to-the-wind wolf or just a downright unhelpful villager? Whatever he is, he made my list.

Eomer, for the minute, I think is probably innocent. Ok, so some of his posts are pure conjecture, but sometimes fuzzy logic is good. But he's a clever guy, and I must sadly admit that I may never learn to trust him.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee

LMP, I'm very unhappy with you for post #219. If the lovers hadn't thought of this then you must be their favourite person in the whole village right now! Unless, of course, you already shared the information with your unfortunate beau? I don't think so, though. I think you just had an idea, didn't think and posted it. I'm inclined to forgive you, simply because I'm not sure I'd have done any differently myself.

Sorry to ruin your day. I only just thought of it before I posted it up. However, I expect that I haven't told the Lovers anything they didn't already realize, since they were right in the middle of "what shall we talk about?" already on Night 1. I said it because I think all us ordos need to keep it mind for our own sakes.

[the guy who be short]

You can hardly blame LMP for pointing that out. It was quite obvious.

I need bed.

++Eomer

[SamwiseGamgee]

LMP, that's actually very amusing. Imagine that awkward 'first date' PM:
"So... you come here often?" But your point is fair: the lovers won't be squandering the 1 PM they have, so they had probably already thought of it.

TGWBS, are you going to bother explaining your vote? Seriously, guys, we're making it so easy for those lupinous cretins if we just vote with no reason attatched other than being tired.

[Thinlómien]

TGWBS you and your wolf proclaiming annoy me. I happened to look the WWJ-thread and there Fea proclaimed she was a wolf and was found to be one. That example surely doesn't benefit you. Also, I'm wondering why are you putting all this "I'm a wolf" show up. I can see two possible reasons: 1. You are a wolf and want to look like too weird to be a wolf. 2. You want to create suspicion so that you won't get killed by the wolves. Either way, I don't like your tactics.

Well, Lommy appears on the list because she’s such a genuinely nice girl.

A phrase that I would normally take as a compliment sounds like an accusation in a game of WW.

(All quotes by Cailín)

Ho-hum. She spent the first day agreeing with others…

That's the only thing you can do if you want to participate and don't have any great new ideas. I wasn't merely agreeing, though, I was also making comments on ideas. (Not that that's much more, but...)

She seems to consider all sides of the argument, which is a very Dutch and unproductive way to go about things.

What should I do then? Say a half of my thoughts and appear short-sighted and more importantly, desert my point.

Then suddenly she follows Anguirel, voting Glirdan whom she did not suspect before.

I can't recall that I was voicing suspicions of anyone on Day 1. So, following that logic whoever I had voted would have brought that accusation against me. Lovely.

Later on, she states she made a wrong decision.

Ummm... I probably did. As I said before I didn't have time to go through all older posts and had no idea who to vote so I just voted someone who seemed a bit suspicious and who had gathered some votes, so I wouldn't doom Garin, who I assumed was maybe innocent. Later, I got a chance to skim through Glirdan's posts and didn't find anything suspicious there, so I told my fellow villagers that I believed him probably innocent.

Did she try to align herself with an innocent? Convenient that Ang died last night, then. This is odd though. And really very nice, too.

Care to explain a bit?

Today she considers Lhuna’s case, and points our attention towards the silent ones. She further says nothing particularly interesting, except for a slight concern she might be trusting Spawn too much (and don’t we all?).

If you think that's uninteresting I think most of the people here (not all though) haven't said anything much more interesting.

I’m a bit worried about you, Thin.

You should be. I might get to be a lynched innocent.

As to my suspicions... I'm again afraid of the silent ones. Valier's response makes me feel less suspicious about her. Still, I don't understand why is she using code language.

Naria is scarily silent. I may vote her.

Lhuna is a bit suspicious. I'm not going to repost all the arguments against her, but I do find her a bit strange.

Further suspicions need more reading.

And I seem to have xposted with a lot of people.

[Glirdan]

Firstly, I cross posted with Eomer and Samwise up there ( ).

Secondly, I'm going to cast my vote....

++Naria

As I said earlier, I'm very unnerved by quiet people and Naria definetly fits that category. Good luck everyone and may we find a Wolf.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Why so angry at LMP, Samwise? His ideas threaten the village not one jot.

TGWBS:

I'm sowing confusion?

What was odder? A random vote designed to gauge reaction; or asking to be lynched and confusing the entire village?

There is reasoning behind my silly little idea, it's just that it's terrible. I was typing in a rush as the thoughts entered my head. And I did go back and check a few minutes later, and then posted the relevant information about who had garnered votes. I just waited until I had finished my post before scrabbling around for the necessary name. It's ok to put things off for a few minutes, you know.

My point (which was not put well at all) was that perhaps it's likely that the wolves would kill someone who had voted for a wolf, in the hope of getting a Seer. It's unlikely they'd kill Anguirel randomly. So either Glirdan is a wolf or we were way off in our voting yesterday.

Not indubitable; but not the absolute worst idea you'll ever hear.

That's why I'm probably going to vote for Glirdan. If he's innocent then I'm inclined to think that certain others (LMP, for example) are innocent; because if they were wolves they would be looking for the Seer in amongst the people who voted for them.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I must disagree, Eomer. If the non lupine lover knows the names of the wolves they could pose as a seer and lead us all on a merry dance, could they not? Or am I just being silly?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee

I must disagree, Eomer. If the non lupine lover knows the names of the wolves they could pose as a seer and lead us all on a merry dance, could they not? Or am I just being silly?

Could, but it wouldn't be too smart. Ordo-lover becomes instant wolf-bait, leading to the death of both lovers.

[Celuien]

Just got back. It's been a busy day.
I'll study the village scrolls and return shortly.

[Lalaith]

I repeat. Samwise, Form, Lmp. You're all intelligent men. Are you telling us that it never occurred to any of you, until Lmp thought of it just now, that the wolf lover wouldn't tell all to his ord lover?

[Lalaith]

Oh, come on you lot. I would have thought it was completely obvious that the wolf lover would confide all to his/her ord girl/boy...if the lovers needed lmp to point out to them the benefits of sharing knowledge then frankly.... No - we can be sure that the only thing those two don't know right now is the identity of the Seers.
I also note that a lot of people have completely ignored the urging of myself and (I think) tar-a, earlier today, NOT to talk about pair-ish behaviour, while both Seers were alive, for fear of outing them. It's a free world of course, but...

I need to go off now, and I'm still not sure who to vote for. I'm still inclined to the theory that it was the Garin defence that did for Ang which actually tells us very little about wolf identity...
I am right, I think, in saying that everyone has now posted today except for Celuien?
I'd like to have heard more from her. And I'm worried about the other quiet ones who have barely posted, as well.
Some points as I ponder:

I'm worried that I trust her and I'm worried that other people trust her as well.

(Lommy )
This is ever the problem with madame spawn. Ditto tar-a. She's just scarily sensible. Actually, regarding the laundress, I'm encountering a bit more obstruseness than I would expect amid the usual spawnish clarity. I would also agree that Lhuna is troubling - the failure to break the double-lynch...hmmm...
Of our loudmouths, Eomer is, as many have pointed out, somewhat erratic, and lmp unusually quiet. But actually, someone else is being unusual. Eonwe is often random, yes, but usually there is more sense among the randomness than we have seen so far. Something's not right. So
++EONWE

[Glirdan]

Anyway, another thought. Someone pointed out (with good reason) that the wolves can afford to lose one of their number in order to take out the Seer. So if Glirdan is a wolf then it's entirely feasible for the wolf-team to kill Anguirel (who voted for Glirdan) and let Glirdan fend for himself.

So, Glirdan....you're a wolf. (Eomer)

Oh no, the gig is up!! Just kidding!!

No offence to Glirdan, but in most games he is strange and in this one he has a change of heart and talks more using big words to garnish his posts. (Valier)

Well, is it working?? I do realize that Im' playing much more boldly then I normally would, but I like it. Especially since I have time...for now.

I think the wolves are more interested in finding Seers than in framing anyone, right now. (Lalaith)

I'm not so sure that they would completely forget about framing the rest of us. But I do agree that they probably far more interested in findig the Seers then framing us. Yet, I think that they would (subconciously mind you) still attempt to frame others. I find that this would be a pretty good way of smoking out a Seer. If someone attacked one who was an innocent and the Seer knew that person was innocent, I believe that the automatic reaction would be to defend that person. In doing so, the Wolves would go for that person. That seems to be the case with what happened to Ang.

If I had voted for one, I would have been a bandwagoning wolf. Now that I chose not to vote for either, I'm a noncomittal werewolf.(Lhuny)

Is this a confession??

And what's this??

It does look bad for Lhuna, I'll grant, but I wonder if we ought to maybe be taking a closer peek at Samwise?(Form)

A Lover trying to shift suspicion of he partner?? Hmm... I'm getting suspicious of Gurthang and Lhuna now.

The interesting thought occured to me that the three main candidates up for lynching last night were male: Garin, Glirdan, and TGWBS. Is it possible, that in the flurry of tying/tie-breaking votes there at the end that one of our female players was trying to save- or did save- her lover?(Gurth)

Hmmm...Even though my name is up on that list, I must say that I'm having the same thoughts. Yet that doesn't mean we have to rule out the others who weren't up there.

Glirdan

Has bravely analysed the quiet villagers. This of course allows him to post without really voicing his own thoughts. A safe way out, were he fanged and hairy. He was in quite a dangerous spot for a while, yesterDay, and particularly because of Anguirel. His posting does seem different, as has been remarked upon before. Whether this is at his fellow wolves insistance or because he is a bored ordo trying a new style, I do not know. I am hesitant to believe Glirdan is the Lover, though.(Cailin)

First off, I did voice suspicionis after I did my analysis on them. As I've said before quite a few times, yes, I did change my style. But that's only because I was completely sick and tired of being quiet and getting suspicion for it and I wanted to be more helpful to the village. Every other time I've always felt useless. Now, I feel like I'm actually contributing and helping out. So, I guess you can say that I'm "a bored ordo trying a new style".

Is clearly not Lhuna’s ‘secret’ Lover. Everyone knows, right? Aside from that, Formendacil seems no different than normal. Based on the same method he uses to determine our guilt, I’d say he’s guiltless. However, I am not certain.(Cailin)

And why's that?? I haven't seen any defense from him saying why he can't be. Now I'm actually starting to think that you might be his 'secret' Lover. Why? Well, you're feeling jealous that everyone is thinking that Lhuna is it and you want to put a stop to it.

My point (which was not put well at all) was that perhaps it's likely that the wolves would kill someone who had voted for a wolf, in the hope of getting a Seer. It's unlikely they'd kill Anguirel randomly. So either Glirdan is a wolf or we were way off in our voting yesterday.

Not indubitable; but not the absolute worst idea you'll ever hear.

That's why I'm probably going to vote for Glirdan. If he's innocent then I'm inclined to think that certain others (LMP, for example) are innocent; because if they were wolves they would be looking for the Seer in amongst the people who voted for them.(Eomer)

If I may ask you one thing Eomer: if I was a Wolf, why on Arda would I want to attack someone who voted for me the previous Day when I know full well that it would put me under suspicion??

I will probably have to vote soon. I'll be back after I have some supper.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Haha! Glirdan, it does indeed put you under suspicion.

BUT WAIT!

No-one even brought it up at the start of the day. It was all about how bad it looks for Kath.

I would have thought that the wolves would have jumped on this opportunity to get at poor innocent Glirdan.

And they haven't (because I'm not a wolf).

So, why not?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lalaith speaking more and more sense. Funny how your opinion of people changes through the day.

Her vote for Eonwe is justified, because he's apparently trying to leave no trail. That could be said for others.

The wolves won't kill TGWBS and we're going to lynch him before the end anyway. We might as well kill him now. And I admit that it's his vote for me that really got me thinking this way.

But despite his charade, I can read some sense in his posts. Do others think this way?

Farael, Kath...

Gah! I have to vote now. Mmmm....one moment please.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Glirdan, in a wolf-team of 4, you are expendable. Like it or not. Anguirel might have been the Seer and he might have nabbed you. But perhaps your wolves would have picked the person who voted for you first. I think Anguirel was not the first. That counts in your favour.

++KATH

Good night, lovelies!

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just so we all know, night is set to fall somewhat early, so don't be caught out by not casting thy mighty vote!

[Celuien]

Alas, sleep draws on my weary eyelids. I'm afraid I must vote.

++SAMWISE

who currently seems more suspicious to me than the others who have received votes so far. His village polling seems stranger and stranger the more I think about it.

For the record, my second choice would be Eonwe, although I think he's a bit too obviously fishy to be a wolf. However, if he continues odd tomorrow, I may vote for him.

And lmp makes an interesting point about Lalaith. Definitely bears watching.

Originally Posted by lmp

You have been triple posting partly because I've been busy analyzing and preparing one post. Here goes.

I suppose I should try to think everything through more before clicking 'submit.' My brain is so disorganized just now. Must be the birthday cake.

[Gurthang]

Wow, so much to read through. I'm going to (attempt to) make this short, since I doubt I'm the only one that's awed by the sheer amount of talk. I'll just post thoughts as they pop into my head while I read.

First, Valier sent a hidden message awhile back. This actually makes me think she is innocent. It makes no sense for a wolf to do it, especially given that they can PM during the Day. A hidden message only draws unwanted attention. I think she was just having some fun seeing who would find it.

Lhuna: Someone(I think Spawn?) brought up some good points about her, and others have voiced similar suspicion. One thing I think is in her favor is actually what is causing suspicion: that she would not break the tie yesterday. It is a guarantee of being suspected, as she is being, and for a wolf it is bad strategy. If you break a tie, one of the two dies, then the next Day the other one is likely to be suspected a lot. If both are lynched, the village begins the next Day fresh, with no stale near lynchees. In short, breaking a tie keeps the village in confusion for another Day, whereas leaving a tie kills both but saves the village time. A wolf would typically break a tie.

LMP is making sense to me, and I like his analysis. Although I should point out that (in post #272) he said Lalaith discredited looking at pairs when she had brought up the idea just 7 posts earlier. From what I see, it looks like she states dislike for the idea in both posts. That's not a good mark for him, and that vote still lingers on my mind. Watching him.

As I said (unfortunately before I realised that Day had ended), I'll be also be watching Farael and Glirdan, and maybe Cailín.


Okay, I finished reading through the second Day, so I'll go ahead and post my thoughts now. I'll be back after reading toDay.

P.S. Late response, I know, but I had noticed that you skipped me Cailín, and I was rather offended, but I do accept your apology.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Glirdan, in post #235 you say that Gurthang said we should be taking a closer look at me, but it was Form in #213. I add this to Eomer's question.

Lalaith, I'll admit that the thought hadn't occurred to me. Intelligent, but not overly so!

[SamwiseGamgee]

Sorry, just as explanation: I raise Glirdan's error simply because I'm a very suspicious guy, and I can't see why he'd make that mistake.

[Glirdan]

Glirdan, in post #235 you say that Gurthang said we should be taking a closer look at me, but it was Form in #213. I add this to Eomer's question.(Samwise)

Simple: I wan't paying attention (not that that's someting new ). I just went back and yes, I realise now that it was Formendacil. I'll go correct that.

So, why not?(Eomer)

So why not what?? Why not attack Ang? Because, I had enough suspicion is it was yesterDay and I was going to start off toDay in pretty rough shape as well: Garin being innocent and Ang's vote for me. Yes it's true that I didn't get it right at the start (and I must say that I'm quite surprised at that) but it was only a matter of time until it happened and would you look at that! Do you really think I'm that stupid??

Anyway, I must vote yet I'm unsure whom to vote for... I'll be back in a few minutes with it...

[Valier]

Originally Posted by Cailin

Sorry Valier. It's not a crime to be annoying.

No it is not a crime, but it is a nasty thing to say that I am my usual annoying self.

I am sorry if my annoying demeanor is a bother to you...All I have to say is...BOTHER,BOTHER,BOTHER!

As for the talk of killing a male tonight I can see why this could help us weed out the lover wolf. How is this going to work if the other two wolves are female?
My Suspisions are:
Eonwe
Cailin
Thinlomien
Glirdan
(This may change in times to come but I gotta go *pouting* still to do homework, I will be back later)