Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIX: Ang Sagang Daga, bow.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

'I defy you, barbed demon of the woods!' said Anguirel to a rock. 'Taste my blade, hedgehog!'

Characteristically, the rock did not reply. But someone else did.

'Morituri non cogitant,' a voice whispered behind him.

'Who goes there?' the woodman cried. He turned and brandished his wood-axe. 'Show your face, craven!'

There was no response, save the rustling of leaves. Small shadows approached the madman of the woods. Small spined shadows.

'Ai! Ai! The hedgehogs! They have come to unfetter their chieftain! O azure warthog! lend me your tusks!'

He rushed at the hedgehogs, essaying to smite them all down. But the hedgehogs changed shape. They grew bigger, more sinewy; fangs grew out of their mouths. They had become were-hedgehogs.

'Ah! They have sent their most savage minions! I fear them not.'

There was a great battle. Anguirel's axe sang as he had slaughtered seventy of the were-hedgehogs. But outnumbered, he was soon spent. His axe left his hand as he sank to the ground, weary and wounded. The hedgehogs gloated as they rent his body and devoured his flesh.

Behind the trees, four vile voices laughed.

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.
Garin, an Ordinary Villager, was lanced like a boil on the the first DAY.
Anguirel, an Ordinary Villager, was massacred by were-hedgehogs on the second NIGHT.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Gurthang]

Well, I was actually thinking that Anguirel's ramblings might be hiding some seer's hints. Thankfully, I was mistaken. Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

But I still say we need to figure out what is going on between Eomer and LMP before anything else.

[Cailín]

I have just had time to quickly read through last night's discussion (and poor Garin - again lynched as an innocent, it seems rather harsh) and there were a few things that immediately struck me.

The exchange of votes between littlemanpoet and Eomer of the Rohirrim.

Gurthang's reaction to that, which sadly triggered little response whatsoever, presumably because people were too preoccupied with Garin's bitterness.

I don't believe in Glirdan's guilt either.

Obviously, the wolves thought they had caught a Seer in poor Anguirel, which makes Kath look rather bad. The Seers could very well have decided to reveal a wolf as soon as they had found one - sacrificing one of them for the common good. However, Ang did not pursue Kath which he would have done if he knew she was in fact a wolf. Well, he's not a Seer, so it seems like a set-up. I don't find Kath very suspicious yet.

I really need to leave now. I shall return shortly (after failing my grammar midterm) and hopefully have more helpful contributions then.

[Lhunardawen]

I agree on both counts, Gurthang. I was afraid that Anguirel might have been an extremely bold Seer; thank the Mod God he isn't.

(He just celebrated his deathday...how fitting. )

And I too am very curious to see how the Eomer-Elempi thing ends up.

Speaking of Elempi, I'm sorry sir for not making things clearer. To make up for it, I'll say that I think yesterDay's votes were spread too thin. And the fact that the threat of a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconcerting. Hopefully toDay the votes will be a bit more concentrated, as history shows us they tend to be. I think five to six sensible votees are good enough.

I'm still very much suspicious of Lalaith for her not very well-reasoned vote against tgwbs. As a matter of fact, I think I'll be questioning those who voted for him.

[Lalaith]

Oh, what a shame about our raving woodman. I shall miss him - rather unsporting of the wolves to kill him off so soon. I'm also surprised that they fell for the seer stuff, or maybe....

Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.
Some other thoughts this morning.
Firstly, a brief little defence of my vote yesterday, as it clearly worried both Spawn and Lhuna. No, Spawn, my vote was not occupation-based, I was simply perturbed by the suicidal voting. And Lhuna, I know enough of twgbs to believe him quite capable of a double-bluff, or even a triple-bluff.
But hey, a little suspicion on oneself is often a good thing, helps keep one from being eaten at night.


Now, on to more important matters. Two things have occurred to me.
Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

Also, I am bearing in mind that wolves can now PM each other during the day as well as the night. I think a discussion on how this could change wolf tactics might be useful, what do the rest of you think? And I would reiterate my point yesterday that I suspect the wolves will tackle the traitor problem by deciding to vote independently of each other.

Cailin, you said

There are now five (and perhaps seven, but we cannot be sure) people who know more than the rest of us

How so? I make it a definite seven - four wolves, two seers and an ord lover. Where does the five come in? Has one of us got the wrong end of the stick?

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please. (Lalaith)

The Law from the Mod God states:

The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

[tar-ancalime]

OK, I believe the technical term for this post is "ginormous." I haven't looked at today's posts yet so I apologize if we've already decided not to do this, but I've gone through yesterday's posts and summarized Anguirel's posts, as well as others' posts that mention him.

Here's the data dump:

Anguirel:

#13 in character; anybody see any hidden messages?
#21 accuses Kath and Eomer but doesn’t seem serious; says dancing spawn has made a good point (referring to thinking of the “innocent” lover as a Cobbler, perhaps)
#37 comments on the suicidal votes
#51 says Samwise Gamgee’s case against Cailin is “patchy and bedraggled;” buys into the (completely unfounded, in my opinion) idea that there’s a connection between Valier and tgwbs; refers to Garin as “bizarre”
#54 regarding lmp: “Still, stone-cutter, I'm not a-liking your arbitrating tone of voice. ..”
#58 says (rightly, if you ask me) that it’s futile and counterproductive to focus on Lovers or Wolves
#59 reminds eonwe that the Lovers live and die together
#65 skewers Garin for his insistence that we should try to kill the Lovers in particular
#69 says he doesn’t trust Eomer; continues the interplay with lmp
#112 wants to save Garin; says Glirdan’s vote is suspicious
#115 asks Thinlomien not to vote for Garin
#118 votes for Glirdan

Others in regard to Anguirel:

Garin mentions him #24, #39 #73 for what that’s worth
Glirdan mentions him mid-rant #41 (“Seriously Ang, I’m in major agreement with you. We are the only sane people in this village.”)
Caranlondien mentions him #49; in regard to occupation only? or am i missing something?
lmp agrees with him about Samwise #52
eonwe thanks him for the reminder #60
Formendacil says he’s a “very keen player” and that he’s being more helpful than usual. Finds this odd. #64
lmp is conciliatory #67
Farael begins his misguided attack #70
Samwise defends him against Farael #71 and #74
Farael continues the offensive #72
Celuien mentions him #84; in-character only
Celuien says he’s helpful #86
Gurthang says he has seen a possible Seer hint that makes him suspicious of Ang #96
Farael votes for him #102
Caranlondien votes for him #108
Thinlomien replies to him #116; isn’t sure where her vote is going

Now, where does this get us? Several people have mentioned that they saw what might be Seer hints;Farael based his attack on what he thought were fake Seer hints. It may be that this is why Anguirel was chosen; it may be that he was chosen to set up Farael; it may be that Farael is a wolf who decided to exonerate himself with a double-cross: "But why would I go after him so strongly and then kill him that very night? I'd never be so bold!" Yeah you would.

Other theories? Anguirel had serious things to say about Samwise, lmp, and possibly Eomer. Could he have been on to something? Did he get something right, contributing to the wolves' idea that he was a Seer?

[tar-ancalime]

And now, yesterday's voting in chronological order:

Cailin-->Lalaith
"Because she is young, rich and beautiful and I just can't stand it."

tgwbs-->tgwbs
in some kind of nilpaurion emulation ceremony

Garin-->Garin
because he’s Garin?

Lalaith-->tgwbs
because he told her to

Eomer-->lmp
as part of his master plan

Kath-->Eomer
because we won’t have to worry about him if he’s dead

tar-ancalime-->Farael
because he is obscuring things

eonwe-->Garin
because he drew the wrong number in the village lottery


Celuien-->Garin
because of his bizarre reversals

lmp-->Eomer
because knowing is half the battle (“Knowing his status may be about the most useful thing that can be garnered out of Day One.”)

Glirdan-->Garin
because...why was that, exactly?

Farael-->Anguirel
for what he thinks is a fake Seer hint

Naria-->tgwbs
because he wants her to

Caranlondien-->Anguirel
because he’s “saying much while saying little”

Valier—>Glirdan;
she says it’s “hasty and safe.”

Thinlomien-->Glirdan
because “there’s something wrong with him”

Anguirel-->Glirdan
because of his vote for Garin

Formendacil-->tgwbs
to save Garin and Glirdan

Lhunadrawen-->Lalaith
“to make a stand”

Samwise-->Garin
to break the tie

Gurthang-->lmp
because...why was that, exactly?

dancing spawn-->eonwe
“because his reasons were just a bit too weird.”

[tar-ancalime]

Yeah, me again.

I finally got a chance to take a look at today's posts.

I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason.

Lalaith, you're right on here:

Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

I've gotten in trouble for this in the past, but here goes again: if you think you know who the Seers are, for Varda's sake keep your trap shut! If you're right you're obviously helping the wolves by bringing it up; if you're wrong you're helping the wolves by adding a false element to the game. They can use it. They thrive on confusion.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Tar-ancalime has already gone through Anguirel's posts, but I want to do it my way, too.

Why was Anguirel killed? What did he say?

#21, pointed at Kath and Eomer.
"For one, I don't like the stamp of that musician fella."
"The varmint claims to have disguised a were-army of hedgehogs under green shells and hidden them in a turtle farm. What d'ye have to say to that, Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat Wandering Horde? Ha ha!" ~Ang

"I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason." ~tar-ancalime

Actually, at the time when Anguirel mentioned Kath, she had already spoken.

I think it's probable that the wolves don't want to waste their time for frame-ups when there are two Seers around. The sooner the wolves get rid of the Seers, the less incriminating information there is. Possibly makes Kath or Eomer look bad. However...

"You're going to have to trust in a dour, sensible sober man of arms like me." ~Ang

Did the wolves think this was a clue that he would have been a Seer? Maybe Anguirel wasn't killed because of the people he mentioned, but the way he talked.

#51, kind of defends Cailín, but doesn't think Samwise is necessarily a wolf because of his "patchy and bedraggled attack". Comments the possibility that there's something between Valier and TGWBS.

Lots of names there, but he doesn't really accuse any of them, so I don't think the wolves would have got scared because of that post.

#54, says that he had forgot lmp, doesn't like his "arbitary tone of voice".

#69, "But I don't trust the harper [Eomer] who accuses ye [lmp] one bit" ~Ang

This is the second time Anguirel mentiones Eomer with that kind of a tone. If Eomer is a wolf, he might have thought that Anguirel has dreamed of him.

#112, thinks Glirdan's vote for Garin is suspicious.

#115, defends Garin quite strongly.

Did the wolves think Anguirel had dreamed of Garin?

#118, votes for Glirdan


Quite a lot of this speaks against Glirdan. Is Glirdan a wolf who thinks Anguirel was a Seer who had dreamed of him? For now, I think Glirdan has been acting like he'd usually act, though.

Okay, there's a possibility that the wolves didn't think that Anguirel was a Seer, but killed him for some other reason instead. However, I'd assume that the wolves are trying to eliminate the Seers asap. and something that Anguirel said caught their attention.

[Gurthang]

Blast! So much discussion. I haven't had a chance to take it all in just yet, but I need to at least speak.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.

Just the way that he was going on about the hedgehogs 'telling' him things made me think he was hinting at being a seer. In that post the 'hedgehog' told him that Kath was not to be trusted. I was sort of thinking that was his hint that he had dreamed of her and she was a wolf. Of course, that's proved wrong now.

Originally Posted by tar-ancalime

Gurthang-->lmp
because...why was that, exactly?

I was so sure that either LMP or Eomer was a wolf, and for some strange reason, I felt like Eomer was the one that should be trusted(that goes completely against all past experience); I still feel that way for the same 'some strange reason'. When I voted, I only just got on right at the deadline, and so thought I had to make a quick vote before the Day ended. As it turns out, I would have had plenty of time to analyze, since Day lasted curiously long .

Despite Eomer saying it was just a random vote, littlemanpoet's retaliatory vote does not sit well with me.

Dancing spawn is also talking a lot of sense. Lhuna may be one to look at.

Lastly, I don't like hearing 'so-and-so can't be a wolf because a wolf just can't do such-and-such!' Wolves can and will do anything, so don't assume that there is anything that automatically clears anyone from being a wolf. (Except the obvious: a seer's declaration of one's innocence.)

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Gurthang

But I still say we need to figure out what is going on between Eomer and LMP before anything else.

Sorry, I have been away stone-cutting all Day so far. I took one half hour rest which I spent reading as far as I could in the Daily Chisel of goings on here. Now to answer your (and others') question about my half of the "LMP/Eomer" thing.

As you may recall, the only information of note that stood out to me were the early post by Lhuna and the mysterious defense of her by Eomer, and I requested further information from both of them. Lhuna finally answered today. Eomer's answer was more mystery. Then, when he voted for me, he claimed open-ended reasoning that could have been interpreted in at least three different ways besides the way he finally told us toDay that he really meant. He said that he is expendable, but I could see Eomer in any role saying that.

I wanted to keep from spreading the nominee list any further than 6. When I voted, there were already 6 nominees. Of those who had already received votes, only Eomer seemed remotely suspicious to me. Lhuna also looked suspicious, since her 'wise advice' to us all not to spread the voting too thin was something that any reasonably experienced player knows already, and her having said it made her look helpful while not really being helpful.

In addition, it was a not unreasonable hypothesis that Lhuna & Eomer are the Lovers. His bold, even blatant, defense of her in his very first post of the game, is the kind of thing I would not put past Eomer. So I was looking at those two as my primary candidates. Lhuna had no votes and the stronger case as such looked to go with Eomer. Thus, my vote. That he had voted for me did play a small factor, but not as large as it seems at first glance.

Now I must go back to reading to try to catch up; currently I'm at about page 4 of the Daily Chisel, which has published so far toDay some 6 pages. Back with more soon....