WWJ VI: Return to Midsomer Mawlin - Kill me again

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nogrod, I still have the same feeling. As mormegil pointed out we were about 4 hrs into the day and he's already talking about people who haven't posted yet. He says he was just trying to get discussion, which I think is reasonable, but is it innocent trying to be helpful, or is he being the clever wolf poller?...trying to see where the village stands and make his plan with his buds?

It seems very hard to communicate to one another. Or then some people are just pushing this total misunderstanding forwards in purpose. Or they don't read other peoples' mails. I'm not sure, which one is the nastiest option.

I have not wanted to lynch anyone by their not posting at 4 hours to the game! C'mon people! I have all the time said, that we must see it when the evening draws closer. I myself will probably be voting here among the last ones - as not to vote for someone too early, with no reasons behind the vote!

PS. Firefoot (and whoever it was that pointed it out earlier) is right about the maths in my earlier post, it doesn't go that way. My fault. 50% would make the ratio of villagers and wolves to 50-50. Stupid of me.

[Boromir88]

A brief description of my post is this: who suspects whom, who seems to be defending whom, who's voted for whom, and interesting points of information. Following will be a brief summary of my thoughts on the player.~Fea

You know I can't wait, what does the great Go Go inspector Peredhil have to say about us (me in particular).

I have not wanted to lynch anyone by their not posting at 4 hours to the game! C'mon people! I have all the time said, that we must see it when the evening draws closer. I myself will probably be voting here among the last ones - as not to vote for someone too early, with no reasons behind the vote!~Nogrod

A bit defensive? Now you are twisting around what I'm saying. I never said you wanted to lynch anyone. I said you were rather hasty saying we should go after the quiet ones and commented who they were, and it was a very short time into the Day. Your reason given seems logical, but I don't question the logic I question the intent. Were you trying to start up discussion to help and view people, or were you going around polling what the general consensus was of the village?

Now I must bid you all an adieu, I shall certainly be back, I wouldn't miss what the all wise Fea has to say.

[Kuruharan]

We have a nice selection of candidates that have garnered votes here.

Unfortunately, that is about the best that can be said on DAY ONE.

I wouldn't miss what the all wise Fea has to say.

Scary isn't it.

[Nogrod]

I'll be off to a school-meeting and hope to be back before the end of the day. If the end is at 7.45 GMT, then I will surely make it.

But if I'm wrong about it, then I will have to do something now.

And just as to give some new ideas to the table, I'll go for

++ Mormegil

And will surely retract it, if there is some better points made while I'm away (and especially if Gil doesn't turn out before the end).

But why?

1) His overhasty, ill-willed vote for me with no grounds whatsoever (disguised as a justified reaction, which it surely was not). Speaks of the evil, not of a constructive fellow-villager.

2) Accusing others of being blood-thirsty and acting as much worse himself (not only suggesting something to be considered, but accusing and also voting, by saying, not probably retracting).

3) Playing to the hands of the wolves: lynch vocal players trying to do something by the villagers during the day, kill the smart ones during the night.

4) His arrogant playingstyle that sets double standards. See his post #30. First he requires explanations from others, then he himself explains his viewpoints this argumentative and explanatory way:

Originally Posted by Firefoot
While I can see where many of you are coming from with your points about Nogrod, I'm not sure that it merits lynching him.

Oh yes it does!

and:

Originally Posted by Firefoot
I'm not sure a wolf would be that forward.

Yes they would.

5) Pure nausea. I wouldn't be that frustrated, if I would be voted out by some whimsical first day reasons like "he writes the word ''wolf' with a 'u' every fifth time" etc. That would be sad, but not frustrating. Trying purposefully to lynch someone who tries to help, is just nasty (and possibly stupid too).

See you later, before the vote ends.

PS. And thanks Feanor for the analysis to come!

PS2. Boro:

or is he being the clever wolf poller?...trying to see where the village stands and make his plan with his buds?

I think it's the task of both villagers and wolfs alike to poll the others to get a picture of the situation: even more urgent with the villagers to know, who to trust. So I can't see trying to arouse discussion as an argument to someone's wolfishness...

[JennyHallu]

Nogrod, you do not come across as trying to be helpful, you come across as bloodthirsty.

And when you explain your votes, you come across as VERY bloodthirsty. I would not go around calling anyone "Nasty", especially on such a rocky ground as you stand on.

For rudeness:

--Gil-Galad

++Nogrod

Until and unless I say otherwise, anyway. I'm not sure if you are wulvish ( ), Nogrod, or just use incredibly loaded rhetoric, but I'm afraid you seem more hindrance than help. Honestly, I would prefer to be voted for because someone genuinely felt I was a potential wolf, than because I occasionally forget what language I'm speaking. (Although, considering I only know smatterings of any language besides my native tongue, that's not likely.)

Feanor, I also await a thoughtful analysis with ill-disguised anticipation.

[Sleepy Ranger]

I don't really have much time so excuse my short post. More oft than not on Day 1 theres always someone who seems to be over-eager to lynch people and more oft than not that person gets band-waggoned on day one and more oft than not that person turns out to be innocent and more oft than not people manage to further their theories based on voting time.

At the moment I don't see any reason to withdraw my vote on Fea and I honestly had no real reason for voting for her but I plan to stick to Day 1, I have no idea what to do, excuse. Though there are already a couple of theories around and I do suspect Morm (not Nogrod much) for now I'll leave my vote on Fea since I doubt she'll end up being the one lynched and that suits me just fine.

[JennyHallu]

On second thought, I am not sure of where my vote should go.

Nogrod's playing style grates on my nerves. He is hasty and often illogical, and his vote justifications are often poorly disguised ad hominem attacks on various players. He complains of rhetoric, but his own can be bilious. But his playing style is always like that...I really have nothing on him to show whether or not he is a wolf, but my own irritation with his consistent style.

Gil-Galad's playing style also grates on my nerves. He is near-silent, and contributes nothing but nonsense to the discussion. His votes (when they come) are almost never backed up by anything concrete. But his playing style is always like that...I really have nothing on him to show whether or not he is a wolf, but my own irritation with his consistent style.

Sleepy's admittedly safe vote is odd, but reasonable. There is little to go on at this stage, and Sleepy seems to be honest about it. I see no reason to suspect it.

Fea's play toDay so far has been erratic. She was quick (and alone) in supporting Nogrod's Kill the Quiet campaign, but that may have been sarcasm. I'm poor at reading that. I look forward to seeing a more reasoned post from her later today.

Boro has been reasonable and logical from the beginning, with almost no character based play. I don't know whether to respect or suspect that. Funny how those two words are so similar.

Mormegil is in the same boat. We have so many varsity players in this game, however, that I'm at a loss as far as comparing their behavior today to any experience with them of my own in past lives.

Kuruharan is another veteran: he has, however, said little of note and not yet voted. Is Kuruharan typically a quiet player? Boromir's comment regarding Kuru's "logical input" would imply that he is not. His behavior today could easily be construed as suspicious, but may be simply an unwillingness to hastily throw suspicion where it has not been earned. (Perhaps I should learn from such an example.)

Firefoot has also seemed reasonable and logical, and apologized for the necessity of her early vote for Sleepy. I am inclined to think her innocent, but with so little to go on I am aware that there is no basis for this besides 'hunch', but that's the only basis for any suspicion as well.

No one else seems to be drawing my eye enough to merit special attention at this stage. Those whose input is purely character-driven toDay though will surely be attracting my interest tomorrow.

I will be interested in seeing the input of others as we draw closer to the end of the Day.

I have decided to leave my vote where it is, for now. I am not comfortable with it, Nogrod is probably innocent. But I have nothing better to go on, and wildly revenge-based accusations are not helpful. I am more impressed by quiet and thoughtful analysis, and more by the man who admits he doesn't know than the one who is sure he's found a wolf, first day.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm touched that y'all are so excited to see what I've been up to while not busy with my other-world life.

Zali: Votes for Nogrod. Nothing else draws me specifically to her. She is quiet, though present. Perhaps life keeps her away from her the village. I see no reason to lynch her today, although if she continues in the vein of present but under-the-radar, I'll become more worried.

Boro (Do the Wave!): Suspects Diamond, Jenny, Fea, Morm, Gil, and Nogrod. Appears to exonerate Zali, Diamond, Firefoot, and Kitanna. One of the few to outright state low suspicion. Isn't taking advantage of the retractable vote rule, whether for amusement or for malicious purpose. The defense is not particularly worrisome, nor is the vote rule, though if I must choose, the first makes me think more than the last. It's nice to see a player who votes only to vote. Brings to mind innocence, though it's always possible he's a wolf that is being careful to avoid the appearance of attempted bandwagons. With both defense and suspicion, B could be dropping names like rabid ferrets in order to confuse us if he is a wolf. Should we be required later to go back and study his posts, they are not specific. Still, it's day one and expecting specifics is irrational. I say more time to thee!

Diamond: she's a quiet one. Perhaps merely new and keeping low to figure out what she should be doing. Perhaps taking advantage of the fact that we know she's new and could be doing that legitimately. Every idea cuts both ways, but at the same time... I really just don't know. I'd like to see more participation, though as I keep mentioning, it's day one and there's not much to participate in. Except, it appears, bickering over Nogrod.

Fea: I've been called an erratic poster. It's true. Yesterday shaped up to be busier than I expected between three classes, a meeting, homework, a theatre production, and four hours in the studio. I'll try to post with more substance as the game continues. In any case: I tried very hard to bandwagon Kuru but gave up when everybody ignored me. I asked permission if I could kill Nogrod. He gave no response, which I shall assume means he'd like to live. I'm giving my thoughts on everybody right now.

Firefoot: Accuses Boro, votes Gil. Hopes Kitanna isn't a wolf so that she can remain in comparison to one of the Greats. Firefoot is, whether on your side or not, good to have around. Her posts, especially as the game goes on, are full of substance, logical, insightful. If she's a wolf, we'll kill her later, but whether she is or not, her detail-oriented posts are helpful.

Gil-Galad: aloof, goofy, Gil-Galad. Not much to say; if we want to stick with tradition of killing off the quiet and scary ones, we might want to stick with the tradition of killing Gil first. On the other hand... I'm pretty sure he's been innocent just about every time that's happened. In any case, I think he merits close watching, but not necessarily death on day one.

Jenny: Accuses Sleepy and Gil. Defends Nogrod. Votes for Sleepy as a joke and immediately retracts. Votes for Gil-Galad and retracts in favor of Nogrod. I've not played with her. Don't know her style at all. Her breakdown of current thoughts seems more genuine than manipulated. If she's a wolf, she's good at it. She's out in the open, but not grating. She's got quality posts, but not so many that it seems she's pulling the discussion. I'll watch her, but my gadget intuition isn't screaming to kill her fast.

Kitanna: Accuses Firefoot, Fea, Nogrod. Later defends Nogrod. I can't make up my mind whether I trust or distrust her. Basically, in my mind, if I think you're guilty, I don't worry, and if I think you're innocent, I dont' worry. I've got you placed. It's when I'm unsure that I look closer. I'm unsure of Kitanna.

Kuru: Defends Nogrod. Jenny notes that he has said little and hasn't voted. She asks if he's typically quiet. The answer is no. Not unless he's got a reason for it. He's precise. Picks his words carefully, whether guilty or innocent. When he does talk, it's usually at length, but here, he's lying low. Perhaps trying to revamp his reputation? I'm willing to bandwagon him for a very good reason. But I'm probably just biased and resentful about my last experience with him as Wolf-Kuru.

Morm: suspects Nogrod, votes for Nogrod, is unusually adamant about us killing Nogrod. If it wasn't such a stupid idea to be so bold on day one, I'd suspect him of Seeing. Since it is a stupid thing, either he's counting on the wolves to believe that he'd never be so bold or he's an unusually stubborn villager or he's a wolf that's being outrageously open about his desire to kill Noggy. It's odd though... Nog hasn't really declared open suspicion of him, though he did vote him. Yet he says it's with the intent to change. Morm's actions don't strike me as knee-jerk reactions, so I really don't know what to make of them. I'm leaning toward a Morm vote for today, since I found Nog's logic (minus the maths mistake) to be practical and I'm not sure why he's so stuck on this.

Nogrod: accuses Fea, Boro, Kitanna, Jenny, Oddy, Kuru. Votes Morm with the intent to change. Comes up with controversial lynch-the-quiet plan. Has faulty maths logic. People want to lynch him. I found his plan to be a decent one, as I said already. Quiet villagers help nobody, not even themselves. They're a liability to have around. Killing them gets rid of a strong level of uncertainty. As he's pointed out, he didn't say to kill them immediately, but only if they develop a habit of being unhelpful. Still, maybe others are seeing something I'm not. I sincerely hope Morm isn't Seeing something I'm not.

Oddwen: votes for Sleepy. Otherwise quiet. I don't like quiet! I don't know what to think about quiet people. Are you innocent? Are you guilty? Just like with Kitanna, I'm not sure and that bugs me.

Sleepy: accuses Morm, votes Fea. Doesn't really suspect Fea that much, but will keep the vote since he's not worried Fea will die because of it. It's an admittedly safe vote after being mostly quiet. Perhaps time-zone differences. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

++Mormegil

I'm too uncertain of Nogrod's guilt for Morm's insistence to sit right. Please forgive me if I'm voting against an innocent or, Mith Forbid, a seer.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Cross-posted. Off to class!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

1) His overhasty, ill-willed vote for me with no grounds whatsoever (disguised as a justified reaction, which it surely was not). Speaks of the evil, not of a constructive fellow-villager.

I follow you not my dear fiend. "Speaks of the evil"??? I believe I do have grounds, as far as Day one goes anyway.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

2) Accusing others of being blood-thirsty and acting as much worse himself (not only suggesting something to be considered, but accusing and also voting, by saying, not probably retracting).

No I more accused YOU of being blood-thirsty, though I did not use that term. I found your call and persistent to get rid of the quiet ones a bit disconcerting especially at how early in the game we are. At time I have stepped forward early and outlined that I will be watching the quiet ones and if they don't actively participate I will begin wanting to lynch them but the first day it seems premature and a good tactic at getting us sidetracked and unfocused on the actual task at hand.

Originally Posted by Guess who

3) Playing to the hands of the wolves: lynch vocal players trying to do something by the villagers during the day, kill the smart ones during the night.

Do you not think me a wolf? Yet you vote for me. While I am not a wolf it seems that you believe that claim. If I am a hapless villager playing into the wolves hands why kill me? Seems an odd choice of words.

Originally Posted by *sigh*

4) His arrogant playingstyle that sets double standards. See his post #30. First he requires explanations from others, then he himself explains his viewpoints this argumentative and explanatory way:

Don't expect it to change anytime soon either. I jest often, especially the first day and I speak frankly. Perhaps one of my responses to Firefoot was in jest but the others were meant as warnings to avoid silly ideas that wolves will not be bold.

[Kuruharan]

Things don't seem to be moving very quickly here.

I'm afraid that I am not comfortable in casting any votes right now, and I suspect other people may be having this problem.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'll be back before the deadline. This places me in something of a quandary. Nogrod is the only player that has given me any particular reason to vote for them. However, I think there is a strong possibility that Nogrod is innocent. I am also uncomfortable that a certain lynch-mob mentality seems to be developing around Nogrod. Should Nogrod be lynched, we will only determine if he is a wolf. If he is, well and good. If he isn't, not so good and we still won't know the quality of the theory regarding quiet players.

There is this growing spat with mormegil to ponder as well. I've heard tell of villages being done in by such squabbling because the rest of the village doesn't want to deal with the issue.

I guess no amount of humming and hawing by me is going to improve this situation so I'll go ahead and cast a vote for...

++ Nogrod

...but if I come back in time I may change it because I'm not comfortable with this.

[Kitanna]

I have very little time to say a number of things so I apoligize if this is rushed and makes no sense.

Ok so it seems Nogrod, Morm, Gil, Fea, and Sleepy have all managed at least one vote.

Ok to hit Nogrod and Morm at once:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

1) His overhasty, ill-willed vote for me with no grounds whatsoever (disguised as a justified reaction, which it surely was not). Speaks of the evil, not of a constructive fellow-villager.

Hasty maybe, but I wouldn't say it had no grounds. He voted for you on the same grounds Azaelia did. Your hastiness brought about their hastiness (though Azaelia does have time issue).
Now Morm is a shifty one, but I'd say between Nogrod and Morm, Nogrod is the more susipcious. But I've been toying with the idea that those two are in cahoots. It seems a wreckless move on DAY one for a team of wolves to attack each other like these two appear to be doing, but it is not utside the realm of possibilty. That's just a loose theory and not something to act on today.

Next is Gil for his short and unhelpful posts. While getting him on day one seems like a good idea even if he is innocent we run the risk of killing a gifted innocent. Gil probably won't change his gaming style regardless of his role, so I prefer to hold out a day before casting down a vote for him.

Fea is Fea. I have neutral feelings toward her. Nothing to condemn her or to save her.

Sleepy, he had a vote and it was retracted correct? Or does the vote still stand? In any case he voted randomly and added very little to the discussion. There's not much to be read into it.

So I don't feel like I should put a vote in for any of them. While I find Nogrod suspicious I feel he is just malicious toward quiets and not so much wolfish. If that makes sense.

That leaves Boromir88, Jenny, Diamond, Firefoot, Azaelia, Kuru, Oddwen, and myself to vote for.
None of those choices seem all that great either. I'd hate to pick randomly, even if my vote does not count.

++Kuru
He's a dangerous enemy and I'm actually afraid of him (and Boromir and Morm for that matter). But for the most part this is random.
I hate random voting, but I always feel bad about not voting at all.

[Mithalwen]

You have one hour.

Current votes:

Nogrod: 4 (morm, Azaelia, Jenny,Kuruharan)
Feanor of the Peredhil:1 (sleepy)
Gil-Galad:1 (Firefoot)
Sleepy Ranger:1 (Oddwen)
Mormegil:1 (Nogrod)
Kuruharan:1 (Kitanna)

Feanor has voted but retracted

Boromir, Diamond and Gil-Galad have not yet voted.

errors and omissions by PM please!!!

While you may change your votes it will be irritating to the Moddess if this is done frivolously.

[Nogrod]

Well. Looks very nice indeed...

And just the safety measure here to begin with:

-- Mormegil

++ Gil

If I remember it right, the situation is, after this

Nogrod 4
Gil 3

I'll check it in a moment, if no-one else corrects me.

I'll try to answer a couple of really bad ones in a short while. You are both making a mistake, and with poor reasons.

[Diamond18]

First let me apologize for what I am about to do. Time has gotten away on me this morning and it seems I should be leaving right now, however I don't want to miss the deadline and not cast a vote at all today. So, seeing as I'm in a tight spot, I am regrettably allowing myself to be swept up by the angry mob and am going to vote for:

+ + Nogrod

Tomorrow I will try to do better. But you all seem to do most of your talking during the hours in which I sleep and then prepare for work, and then it takes an hour just to read over it all. Luckily, tomorrow no work, so I'll be able to give it all my proper attention.

[Boromir88]

Well my vote must be coming. I was hoping to hold out until I heard what Fea had to say. Seeing if there would be no reason (or perhaps a reason) for me to vote for her, but looks like it aint happenin'.

Just some comments:

Mormegil is in the same boat. We have so many varsity players in this game, however, that I'm at a loss as far as comparing their behavior today to any experience with them of my own in past lives.~Jenny

Now this isn't a defense of mormegil, but when he spots one person as he finds suspicious, he tends to go after that person and keep after them. Some (like me) like to look at a wider ranger of people and possibilities, morm narrows down to one and goes after them. Nothing out of the ordinary, but this doesn't mean he isn't a wolf.

Boromir's comment regarding Kuru's "logical input" would imply that he is not. His behavior today could easily be construed as suspicious, but may be simply an unwillingness to hastily throw suspicion where it has not been earned.~Jenny

One doesn't post have to post a lot to have valuable input. Kuru isn't usually one to say a whole bunch (compared to me or other players), but what he does say is usually insightful and helpful. That's what I mean with the "logical input." And so far I haven't seen much of it from him, he seems lost and confused. Which of course it being Day 1 I'm thinking he's as lost as I am, and everyone else.

But I've been toying with the idea that those two are in cahoots. It seems a wreckless move on DAY one for a team of wolves to attack each other like these two appear to be doing, but it is not utside the realm of possibilty.~Kitanna

Possible, but I doubt it. Not a move I would put on wolves to do. Perhaps a little later if one of them is under deep suspicion and will likely be lynched, but there's no reason for wolves to act so fiesty and go after eachother if there's no suspicion on them. Morm's attacks looks more like he's going after who he feels looks the most suspicious. Though I don't think Nogrod is a wolf, we don't have much to go on in Day 1 and morm is going after something he finds suspicious.

Ok so it seems Nogrod, Morm, Gil, Fea, and Sleepy have all managed at least one vote.~Kitanna

Fea withdrew her vote for Kuru, I think it was more of her being her normal Fea-self.

I could do the totally random thing and throw out a vote for just anyone, or jump on the Nogrod bandwagon, but I am paralyzed with the fear that whatever I do will cast suspicion.~Diamond

And that's the truth. A little helpful tip, say this last 5 days it's much better for you to be 0 for 5 and vote a lynching for 5 innocents, then voting for the death of a wolf just once...because you vote for a wolf now you are automatically seen as voting for your own companion to make yourself look more innocent. It's rather strange.

When Werewolves first plagued us, they were pretty stupid (no offense to any prior werewolvers), I mean they basically held up a sign saying "lynch me, I'm a werewolf." But now as the game goes on the wolves get more and more intellegent, and they start bringing themselves up to our intellegence, where they are able to blend in much more and look just like any normal villager. And it's up to the innocents to maintain a higher intellegence than the wolves. Hope that makes sense.

Well I must vote.

Nogrod may or may not be a wolf. I'm going to try to keep things close as it doesn't do much to bandwagon. I don't see anything suspicious in those who have voted for Nogrod, as really he does look the worst of anyone here. But, I can't pull the platform on him...his sharp defense of himself seems more innocent then wolvish. I think wolves typically are more calm if they're being suspected, they can hold themselves together and lie through their sharp, pointy teeth ( ). Typically those who defend themselves so fiercely are innocent, and I think that is the case with Nogrod. He may very well be a wolf, I don't know, I could be totally wrong, I'm as lost and dazed as everyone else (except the wolves that is who know what they are doing). But, I'm inclined to believe Nogrod is innocent.

Which means who do I vote for, I left it between Feanor, Gil-galad, and Nogrod. I explained Nogrod. Now Fea or Gil. Well I'm willing to give Gil the benefit of the doubt for now. Which means I'll join Sleepy and vote.

++Feanor

Don't think she'll be lynched, and I was waiting around to see what she had to say, but hasn't happened so far and she always scares me as a player...whether she's innocent or not.