The Hobbit - Chapter 07 - Queer Lodgings

[JennyHallu]

Yeah, I was only thinking he might eat fish in bear form.

Alaska's climate isn't warm, but temperatures run at about 60-80 degrees fahrenheit in summer, depending on where you are. It is a huge state, and a lot of it is fairly warm...however I'm not familiar with the climate in Finland. From some quick reading I just did on the internet they look comparable, but I'm converting the Celsius to Fahrenheit fairly roughly in my head. Here's a link to some basic info on Alaskan weather...

And then we'd better get back on topic.

[Thinlómien]

That summer temperature sounds quite like Finland. And now to the topic.

-----thinking of something meaningful to write--------------------------------------------------

When rereading the Hobbit, the end of this chapter always makes me a bit sad. There's no Gandalf anymore to help them. I think he (Gandalf) has a bad way of doing that. Leaving when he's needed. Of course you can argue that his leaving is essential for the other characters to grow up, but if we don't think of character development or anything like that outside the world of the books, he really has a bad habit on that. But on the other hand, he's always needed. So maybe I'm just babbling nonsense.

[Aiwendil]

Estelyn wrote:

Gandalf's answer on the reason for the name "Carrock" is interesting, coming from a linguist!

It seems to me that Gandalf is having a little joke here. Bilbo asks why Beorn calls it "the Carrock" and Gandalf pretends the question is why he calls it "the Carrock" instead of why he calls it "the Carrock". Reminds me a bit of Goldberry's answer to the question "Who is Tom Bombadil?": "He is", as if the question were which of the people present goes by that name.

Incidentally, I don't think Tolkien would have called himself a "linguist" . . .

Gandalf's tactic in combining a fascinating story with unpleasant facts (unwanted guests, in this case) sounds like a good example for writers, film makers, and teachers to follow. It's a fun passage to read, isn't it?!

It certainly is! Like many passages in The Hobbit (and a few in LotR), this has genuine value as humour in and of itself. I think that many people get too focused on analysing the tone of The Hobbit and concluding that passages like this make it "light", as if their only effect is to detract from the gravity of the work. Maybe they do detract from its gravity, but they also add something.

There is a much-neglected poem here, "The wind was on the withered heath..." Do you like it? Why do you think it's not as popular as many other Tolkien poems?

You know, I rather like Dwarvish poetry. At any rate, I like the few examples of it that Tolkien gives. In The Hobbit, the Dwarves always use the same form for their serious poetry (i.e. excluding "Chip the glasses, crack the plates") - four-line stanzas in what I'd call iambic tetrameter (octosyllabic, if you prefer), with a rhyme scheme aaba, and internal rhyme on "b" between the two halves of the third line. I like this form, and it seems especially suitable for the Dwarves somehow, perhaps because the internal rhyme gives it a certain rhythmic/chanting quality.

Having said that, I must also agree with much that littlemanpoet says about this particular poem. It is a bit weaker than most of Tolkien's stuff and, in particular, weaker than the Dwarvish poem in chapter 1.

JennyHallu wrote:

Some bears, such as the Panda bear, are almost exclusively herbivorous. The polar bear, however is exclusively a hunter. All bears, however, are classified as carnivores.

Well, bears are "carnivores" by taxonomic classification; i.e. they are in the order carnivora. That name for the order is unfortunate, since there are both carnivores and omnivores in it and there are also carnivores outside it. Incidentally, the classification of the giant panda as a "bear" is controversial; many believe that it is a member of the raccoon family and others place it in a family by itself (well, along with the "lesser" panda).

[Tuor in Gondolin]

WARNING: Never send a copy of The Hobbit to
Steven Colbert (of The Colbert Report--- pronunced, of
course, Colbear Repor) since
he will be terrified of Beorn! And he'll
probably rip the book.

[Aiwendil]

WARNING: Never send a copy of The Hobbit to
Steven Colbert (of The Colbert Report--- pronunced, of
course, Colbear Repor) since
he will be terrified of Beorn! And he'll
probably rip the book.

Actually, he's a big Tolkien fan. But this is really neither here nor there.

[Raynor]

Incidentally, I don't think Tolkien would have called himself a "linguist" . . .

He called himself so, (a "professional linguist") in letter #188 - though he indeed declined that label in other ocasions.

In Myths transformed, Tolkien confessed that he dislikes the presence of so many talking animals, but admits that they cannot be 'excised' from the story. Interestingly enough, he doesn't attribute them a 'rational soul' (neither did he to Huan, Thorondor (blasphemy!), orcs or trolls).

[Bêthberry]

Well now, perhaps it is safe for *Bethberry* to tread the thread without drawing undue attention for a bear's diet.

Originally Posted by Raynor

He called himself so, (a "professional linguist") in letter #188 - though he indeed declined that label in other ocasions.

The term 'linguist' has seen several meanings. It could mean simply one who speaks several languages--a polyglot--hence Tolkien's modification of the word with "professional." At the same time, during Tolkien's life time his field of studies was in some measure eclipsed by the new field of language study, linguistics. His field is referred to more often these days as philology or historical linguistics.

Like Aiwendil, I don't think the humour is misplaced in this chapter. It demonstrates the same kind of pattern that Tolkien follows in LotR: several scrapes and adventures followed by respite in a safe house. And what a safe house! It reminds me a bit of Old English mead halls, the large, central hall where guests were fed, entertained, and slept. Well, many medieval castles began that way also. Besides, Beorn is a handy "deus ex machina" to provide supplies and mounts. No Holiday Inn nor Hertz!

The way the dwarves and Bilbo easily take off their clothes, swim, and then dry in the sun (presumably still naked) reminds me rather directly that this is a boys' story. Girls at this time in Tolkien's culture certainly were officially taught to display extreme modesty and were never allowed to see each other's bodies in such an unassuming manner. In some parts, they were even forced to bathe wearing undergarments so they wouldn't see their own body!

I think it is regretful that Tolkien came to dislike the talking animals. They fit so well with the fairy tale aura the story develops, as is Gandalf's last warning:

Straight through the forest is your way now now. Don't stray off the track . . . . DON'T LEAVE THE PATH.

And does anyone doubt that they will?

[Aiwendil]

Straight through the forest is your way now now. Don't stray off the track . . . . DON'T LEAVE THE PATH.

Good point, Bethberry. The "prohibition" (always violated, of course) is one of the common elements in such tales that Tolkien mentions in "On Fairy Stories".

[JennyHallu]

I don't think that the talking animals themselves were the problem...it was more that Middle-Earth grew so far away from the child's fairy-tale. They no longer fit in the world, but couldn't be separated from the story...Perhaps that was the source of Tolkien's frustration.