The Hobbit - Chapter 06 - Out of the Frying-Pan Into the Fire

[A_Brandybuck]

First I want to say, that I am now getting in here at Chapter 6. So, I have not read the earlier chapters (sure I have, but I am starting now to read from Chapter 6). Thus just let me know, when something has already discussed.

The first thing, which got my attention was a phrase from Gandalf:

I must see if I can't find a more or less decent giant to block it up again, [...] or soon there will be no getting over the mountains at all

What was Gandalf's plan concerning the goblin-gate? He couldn't really mean to find a giant, who blocks the gate with a huge stone. Does this formulation is caused by the circumstances, that the 'Hobbit' is a children's book and does this fit only in the context of the 'Hobbit', but not in the context of later Middle-Earth.
Maybe he really meant the Stone-Giants, which they have seen before.

On the other side, Gandalf could have made some kind of joke and only wanted to say, that this is a serious problem and someone, who is powerful enough, has to solve the problem. But the Dwarves should not care about it now.

Also, the flight always remember me at the Flight of the Fellowship out of Moria.

"We must be getting on at once, now we are a little rested," he said. "They will be out after us in hundreds when night comes on; and already shadows are lengthening ...

It is a very similar situation. Coming out of Caves, which are 'populated' by Orcs/Goblins, Have to hurry, because the Goblins are not yet here, but coming soon.

One word also drew my attention: christmas tree
Where did the narrator get this word, because there is no christmas-tree in Middle-Earth, because there is no christmas.
But I think, that this is caused by another instance, the narrator of the story was surely not an inhabitant of Middle-Earth, but of our World and he is the one, who drew the comparison. He surely knows about Christmas ...

What exactly was the language of the Wargs? The fact, that Gandalf understand the language let me to the assumption, that it could be a kind of "Black Speech".

Concerning the Eagles, I wondered whether the name 'Gwaihir' was already derived, probably not, because then the 'Lord of the Eagles' were surely named.

The chapter ends with a very good ending for Bilbo. His stomach was finally feeling full again.

The question, what does Bilbo's dream mean bothered me, too. I have no proof, but my feeling tells me, that the dream is somehow related with the Ring. Maybe some foresight concerning his dependance to the Ring.
Another possibility could be, that he is now that long on the road, that his memory to his home has become more and more vague, so that he dreamt only from the House, but could not think about something else in Bagend.
But as I said, only speculation.

[Kath]

I suppose Bilbo's immediate reluctance to tell the true story about how he got out of the tunnels could be a sign of the power of the Ring, that it has already begun to exert an influence over him. However, it could also be that he felt deep down that he had got it from Gollum by unfair means because, once he realised that he was holding the very thing this creature wanted, he kept it.

As to why the Dwarves should be so interested in the riddles, perhaps it was a common game. Since both Bilbo and Gollum knew it though their heritages and histories were quite different, it may be that it was a well-known thing. Also, if someone tells you a story and mentions a riddle, wouldn't you want to know what it was to see if you could figure it out?

Is that just to remind us of his hobbit nature, or do you think there's more significance to it?

I can think of no other significance it would hold. We are constantly reminded that he is not a natural adventurer. In fact we are reminded that he is really a bit of a wuss! Though perhaps his comment - "I am nearly dead of it!" - when referring to the hunger mentioned could be a sort of play on words. We have just had a bit of narration in which Bilbo constantly fears being torn up for food, so maybe he is afraid that he'll be killed because the eagles are hungry. Tenuous I know!

I think to answer all these questions on Wargs we're going to have to get Eomer and SamwiseGamgee in here, they are the resident experts after all. Though they may argue that these cannot be 'real' Wargs, since no self-respecting Warg would allow such a creature on it's back.

Gandalf's fiery attack on the wolves does seem reckless, and so a little out of character if you look at the LotR Gandalf who seems to think over every action, but the TH Gandalf seems less concerned with the consequences of original actions. It might also suggest that he had never dealt with that particular situation before, and didn't really know what he was doing.

Truthfully I found the songs to be a little scary when I first read the book. All that about roasting and fat melting and bones blackening . . . certainly creeped me out! While they may not be on a par with some of his more serious songs, they are just as effective, and they definitely get the point across.

Bilbo's dream, of searching all round the house, perhaps as A_Brandybuck says it is an early warning of how the Ring will affect him? I believe in LotR he says that he is constantly needing to know where it is, so maybe.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose Bilbo's immediate reluctance to tell the true story about how he got out of the tunnels could be a sign of the power of the Ring, that it has already begun to exert an influence over him. However, it could also be that he felt deep down that he had got it from Gollum by unfair means because, once he realised that he was holding the very thing this creature wanted, he kept it.

But again the canonicity-question (or kind of)! Those that you mention are surely Bilbo's motives from a viewpoint which includes LotR, but if we think about TH as one sole book that was written before LotR, the ring-effects-motive possibly can't be. Because the Ring wasn't (read: Tolkien didn't consider the ring) such a significant item that altered people's behaviour.

Bilbo's dream, of searching all round the house, perhaps as A_Brandybuck says it is an early warning of how the Ring will affect him? I believe in LotR he says that he is constantly needing to know where it is, so maybe.

Again, a good point if we include LotR in our consideration, if not it's a little use.

[Kath]

Because the Ring wasn't (read: Tolkien didn't consider the ring) such a significant item that altered people's behaviour.

Do you know that? I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't know. Perhaps in writing it he did realise what an impact it might have. We know he changed bits of the story to make it fit in with LotR, but perhaps this was something that had already come into his head.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

Do you know that? I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't know. Perhaps in writing it he did realise what an impact it might have. We know he changed bits of the story to make it fit in with LotR, but perhaps this was something that had already come into his head.

Of course I can't know!
...
I was just assuming.

[Kath]

Ah I see, I thought perhaps you had read it somewhere!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose Bilbo's immediate reluctance to tell the true story about how he got out of the tunnels could be a sign of the power of the Ring, that it has already begun to exert an influence over him. However, it could also be that he felt deep down that he had got it from Gollum by unfair means because, once he realised that he was holding the very thing this creature wanted, he kept it.

My sense is that his motivation was as immediate as his reluctance. He had just snuck under the nose of Balin, and his vanity kept him from admitting that he'd done it with a magic ring. He wanted the Dwarves' approval, and now had a means of getting it; underhanded, mind you, but he was a thief, after all.