The Hobbit - Chapter 05 - Riddles in the Dark

[littlemanpoet]

I have to comment on this now instead of later!

As I've mentioned elsewhere, this chapter was my introduction to Tolkien, because my older brother gave me a vocal performance of it, reading it aloud to me at bed time. The events in the chapter changed Bilbo's life; I can honestly say that this moment in my own experience changed my life. In discovering Tolkien, my imagination was baptized (to borrow a phrase from Lewis), and I have never looked back.

Part of what captured my imagination was the life and death aspect of this event; also, Gollum was deliciously scary and evil. On top of that, the riddling is enough to capture the interest of any young reader; it also awakened me to the realities of Anglo-Saxon poetry, which I was to discover only much later.

I (once upon a time) had Jared Lobdell's (edited) Tolkien Compass (now sadly lent and lost), in which the old and new versions are presented side by side. That was a fascinating read! And I'm so glad Tolkien revised it for the sake of LotR. From memory, the main difference in the original version is that Gollum keeps his word, and leads Bilbo out of the depths of the mountain. I don't remember, but it's almost like Gollum wishes him luck, like in some Grimm's Fairy Tale! The edge of one's seat intensity of the revised version is much better, and allows for the eucatastrophe of Bilbo's change of heart, choosing not to kill Gollum out of pity. Very important and very moving.

Was Bilbo foolish? Well, yes, but it was really naiveté, wasn't it? It highlighted how immature and childish he still was at this point, which only heightened the impact of the very mature pitying of Gollum at the end of the chapter, not to mention the exceedingly deft handling of political turmoils between Thorin and the army that wanted a share in the spoils of Smaug's death.

The fact that Gollum and Bilbo riddle back and forth to each other shows their kinship, however remote. Their minds are not dissimilar; thus, we have a clue that Bilbo does have the potential to become a second Gollum! But that is maybe hindsight only. Or is it?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I (once upon a time) had Jared Lobdell's (edited) Tolkien Compass (now sadly lent and lost), in which the old and new versions are presented side by side.

You might want to check out The Annotated Hobbit, which
gives the versions and discusses them, although my
impression is that the editor of The Annotated Hobbit
prefers the original version and doesn't see a compelling
reason to have changed it..

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

The fact that Gollum and Bilbo riddle back and forth to each other shows their kinship, however remote. Their minds are not dissimilar; thus, we have a clue that Bilbo does have the potential to become a second Gollum! But that is maybe hindsight only. Or is it?

I think it's also a question of character and personality. And, if there's such a thing, I'd say that Bilbo had better ring-resistance than Gollum did. But again, the situations in wich they first saw (and took) the Ring are very dissimilar. Would Bilbo have used violence to get the Ring? (Luckily) we don't know. But it's interesting to speculate. I don't believe he would have because he had a different personality and had a better self-control or/and ring-resistance than Gollum had.
Another fact that affects would Bilbo have become another Gollum is that the Ring had more time to affect Gollum. If Bilbo had wielded the Ring as long as Gollum did, what would he have become? He had a better ring-resistance (he f.g. gave it up voluntarily), but was he resistant enough? I think he would have become a "milder" version of Gollum.

Riddles in the Dark has always been one of my favourite chapters. the riddle-game intrigues me. The riddles fascinated me when I was first read TH aloud (I was about 6 yo). I couldn't guess them, but I could get the "air" of them and was always keen to know the answer.
I'm also interested in the first version of the chapter and how it would have changed the Lord of the Rings, if it had remained. (Discussed here.)

Also, I like that the buttons of Bilbo's vest come off. In the midst of all adventure there are such small things! And it's so absurd (sorry, I'm jumping to the next chapter) when Bilbo grieves after his buttons when he's barely got out of the caves alive!

[JennyHallu]

I don't know if Bilbo's resistance to the Ring was as much better than Smeagol's as it seems. Bilbo found the Ring in such a way that it prevented any necessity of violence. Perhaps the ring had learned how to approach his victims.

Honestly, I never really got the feeling that the handy little trinket in The Hobbit and the actively malevolent presence in The Lord of the Rings were the same bit of jewelry. Almost as though even in his revision of the chapter Tolkien still hadn't yet realized quite what a danger the Ring was going to be.

I wonder if Bilbo was riddling with Smeagol or Gollum? The ring had left him, and Bilbo was bringing up all his hidden and hated memories of sun and happiness, and Smeagol really seemed almost wistful about it.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

I wonder if Bilbo was riddling with Smeagol or Gollum? The ring had left him, and Bilbo was bringing up all his hidden and hated memories of sun and happiness, and Smeagol really seemed almost wistful about it.

Interesting question; I've never thought about that. More Sméagol, me thinks, but some mixture of the persons maybe describs the Gollum of TH better. Or maybe first Sméagol and after realising the loss of the Ring Gollum?

[JennyHallu]

Or first Smeagol, and Gollum arrived after Bilbo cheated. In the Two Towers and the Return of the King Smeagol always turned to Gollum when he felt he had been wronged.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Or first Smeagol, and Gollum arrived after Bilbo cheated. In the Two Towers and the Return of the King Smeagol always turned to Gollum when he felt he had been wronged.

I was thinking along the same lines (or I was saying that in my previous post).

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Another interesting thing is that Gollum's logic either fails or then he's very very suspicious: he assumes that Bilbo has gone to the gate though he had just asked for help to get to the gates. Do you think his logic fails or that he just assumes that Bilbo lied to him? This has troubled me.

[JennyHallu]

I think he assumed Bilbo was dishonest.

Bilbo had, after all, just cheated on the Riddle-game. And he had been clever enough (ok, lucky enough, but how does Gollum know that?) to steal the Ring. And Gollum had not had contact with anything more intelligent than a fish for a long time. He could only have predicted Bilbo's actions based on what he himself would do. And he would have lied. I always figured that Gollum believed Bilbo only came down to his pool in order to deliberately steal the Ring. Paranoid little guy...