Culinary traditions in Middle Earth

[eowyntje]

I would expect some elves to eat something vegetarian now and then, so that might be a good place to look for recipes without meat. But I would find it less likely for dwarfs or hobbits to be eating vegetarian, unless they couldn't find any meat.

I think the Arda cookbook is a little less serious then this one, containing Mawe's muffins, Yavanna's Yam and orc Stew, where as this topic tries to think of recipes that could actually be made in middle earth (if it existed)

[Thinlómien]

Composing Elvish kitchen sounds a bit too ambitious for me, but if Nogrod or anyone is willing to try, I think it's a great idea.

All I know is that they ate white bread and fruits

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What, do you suppose, Dwarves of the Misty Mountains ate?

We know that Gollum survived on fish and orc and whatever else came his way, but I daresay that Dwarven tastebuds aren't accustomed to orc-meat.

Birds of the high peaks? Or all imported foods... If imported, would they not have a spectacularly diverse menu?

[JennyHallu]

Mushrooms. I would guess that dwarves, preferring to live, like Hobbits, underground, would perhaps share their prediliction for musrooms. And perhaps for meat they would stick to smaller livestock animals, like sheep, rather than try to herd cattle, which would be almost four times their size, not to mention they would challenge even their strength. Perhaps they have domesticated rabbits...these could be raised in a cage, and thus within their underground homes. They probably do not use a lot of game meats, because of their weak woodcraft. I would assume freshwater fish like trout and catfish, and perhaps small game, as well as smaller animals that could be domesticated. For grain and vegetables, I think they would probably import. Dale is located so close to Erebor that it is not a stretch to suppose that much of the Dalemen's livelihood is derived from supporting the dwarves, but I doubt they purchase anything too exotic, or prepare anything too complicated, just because their character tends to be sturdy and practical. It always seemed to me that Gimli and the hobbits had by and large a fairly similar worldview.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

I doubt they purchase anything too exotic, or prepare anything too complicated, just because their character tends to be sturdy and practical. It always seemed to me that Gimli and the hobbits had by and large a fairly similar worldview.

Very true. I imagine a nice hearty stew would go over fantastically.

And while I love the idea of curry down south, I can't help but see Dol Amrothians eating a lot of fish stews, dried fish, fish casserole... And duck. I can imagine duck finding its way to their tables, though I'm pretty sure swan would be frowned upon. Sushi? I can imagine it.

[JennyHallu]

I can't help but see Dol Amrothians eating a lot of fish stews, dried fish, fish casserole...

Nah...but not for any good reasons...I always had a crush on Prince Imrahil, and I don't like fish. So I don't want Imrahil to have fish-breath.

I always imagined Dol Amroth (and the nearby lands of Belfalas) to have a hearty sort of Italian cuisine. Heavy pastas in rich sauces with lots of vegetables. Lamb and exotic seafood for meat, and perhaps pickled fish like anchovies or sardines, if they ever eat preserved fish at all...why on earth would they ever eat dried fish? It would be available year round, even to the poorest of Imrahil's people!

The location in the south of a fairly temperate continent and the proximity to both the Sea and mountains...this is what my brain instantly pops up.


Oh and the Dwarvish diet, I think, would be peppery. Not hot...but peppery.

[Nogrod]

A few comments...

=Feanor of... Nogrod, have you any recipes from the Beornings? Anguirel's post of lembas notwithstanding, all foods posted thus far have one failing: meat. Not that that's a real failing, mind you, but... vegetarians like cooking too.

The Indian food of Southern Gondor sounds promising... spices and all easiliy available through sea-trade... Any non-meat dishes you know of that they might have served up? Something fruity that the Elves might be fond of?

I do have a couple of ideas for the Beornings and this Indian-styled South-Gondor in abundance (well, bragging a little here perhaps...). I'll promise next to come up with something vegetarian.

=Estelyn. The original intent of this thread was for discussion on food in Middle-earth. We already have a recipe thread here: Arda Recipe Book. Please post your recipes there to make finding them all easier.

Since this topic is more speculative than actual book discussion, I'm moving the thread to the Novices and Newcomers forum. Please continue to discuss there.

=Eowyntje. I think the Arda cookbook is a little less serious then this one, containing Mawe's muffins, Yavanna's Yam and orc Stew, where as this topic tries to think of recipes that could actually be made in middle earth (if it existed)

Well. Indeed the original intent was, unhappily, to do both: the discussion & the recipies (which may be a bad idea). But concerning the Arda Cookbook, I totally agree with Eowyntje's reply. My intention was not to come up with these "First you take two Balrogs" -kind of recipies. Fun stuff they may be at best, but for a different context. I have been quite honestly after an "what could they really have eaten" -stuff.

But what comes to moving this discussion to Novices and Newcomers, that's ok. for me. I kind of had some problems in the first place, about which would be the best place for this thread.

Lembas and the elven food are tough ones. Thinlómien is quite right in that. But still the recipe shared here looked delicious, at least on its own right.

=JennyHallu. Mushrooms. I would guess that dwarves, preferring to live, like Hobbits, underground, would perhaps share their prediliction for musrooms. And perhaps for meat they would stick to smaller livestock animals, like sheep, rather than try to herd cattle, which would be almost four times their size, not to mention they would challenge even their strength.

That's basically the same reason, why I haven't made very many Hobbit recipies with beef (there propably is one or two, which can be explained by the town of Bree and humans there raising & slaughtering the cattle). But Hobbits would have to have pigs... and therefore a wealth of pork-recipies.

JH's ideas about dwarf kitchen are overall reasonable. And the relations to Dale and even Esgaroth should be thought about. If there is some slavic in Lakeside kitchen, I would indeed be ready to bet on dwarvish kitchen sharing that. Isn't there something quite slavic in the dwarves anyway?

[JennyHallu]

Isn't there something quite slavic in the dwarves anyway?

Nordic, really, which isn't quite the same thing, but I don't really know how deep the differences run. I know we have some BDers from both Nordic and Slavic areas of Europe, perhaps we should kidnap them for their input. You yourself aren't that far from there, Nogrod. (I don't think, my geography sucks.)

[Child of the 7th Age]

"Pork recipes for hobbits?" Whoops, not my hobbits.

But I suppose you are right concerning the dearth of beef.

How about vegetarian hobbits?

[JennyHallu]

Unfortunately, Child, I don't think we have any record of vegetarian hobbits...but we do have vegetarian dishes they would probably enjoy.

Fried or sauteed mushrooms; seed, oat, or nut-cakes; I bet they would enjoy potatoes, cubed, seasoned, and fried or baked with thinly sliced onion in some butter or lard, (or olive or vegetable oil if you're trying to cook it yourself without clogging an artery) until tender.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

"Pork recipes for hobbits?" Whoops, not my hobbits.

But I suppose you are right concerning the dearth of beef.

How about vegetarian hobbits?

Here we see the reason, why I thought there would be place for discussion. In my imagination the hobbits love mushrooms, veggies, pork, white bread, hard cheeses and any kind of an ale (+ a good smokeful of weed after dinner). That seems quite obvious to me. But as we see, we don't all share the same "obvious" ideas. That's why we would have to discuss these.

Sorry, the life outside the BD calls, and can't continue this right now. But I'll be back. This looks interesting.

[eowyntje]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

"Pork recipes for hobbits?" Whoops, not my hobbits.

But I suppose you are right concerning the dearth of beef.

How about vegetarian hobbits?

I believe there is at least one mentioning in the Lord of the Rings, of a hobbit eating bacon:

There was beer in plentym and a mighty dish of mushrooms and bacon besides much other solid farmhouse fare

(book one, 'A shortcut to mushrooms')
I find it hard to believe hobbits were vegetarian, but of course you're free to create great vegetarian hobbit recepies.

To know more about the hobbit's eating habbits, we may have to look at their tradingcustoms. I think not everything about the hobbit kitchen was english, for example:
Hobbits grew and ate patatoes, for as far as I can tell, they have had them for quite a long time. However, since patatoes came from Amerika, Great Britian could not have had any before 1492. In fact, after destroying the Inca-civilasation, the spanish invaders did not notice the papatoe at all and thought it to be useless. It is only in the late 17th and 18th century that the papatoe begins to spread around Europe.
So in this matter, hobbiton can't have been like Britian, the shire must either have a different climate for patatoes to grow their naturaly, or they must trade or have traded with a region with that climate. But where in middle earth do we find people capable of trade with hobbits, having a south-amerika like climate?

Also, they have great wineyards, and grew tabacco which is not something Great Britian is famous for. Meriadoc Brandybuck said:

All the same, observations that I have made on my many journeys south have convinced me that the weed itsself is not native to our parts of the world, but came northward from the lower Anduin, wither it was, I suspect, originally brought over sea by the men of Westernesse

(prologue, 'concerning pipe-weed')
A sign of a quite long traderoot. If they imported pipeweed, what else did they import?

Maybe I'm digging to deep in all this, but I think finding out a bit about the middle earth traderoots would tell us a lot about their eatinghabbits.


So far in Lotr I've found notes of hobbits eating: patatoes, rabbits, herbs, mushrooms, carrots, cabigages, bread, corn, appels, honey, wine, beer, and pipeweed.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Nordic, really, which isn't quite the same thing, but I don't really know how deep the differences run. I know we have some BDers from both Nordic and Slavic areas of Europe, perhaps we should kidnap them for their input. You yourself aren't that far from there, Nogrod. (I don't think, my geography sucks.)

Not that far at all...

I would see the Beornings eating in quite a Nordic style (even though Nordic palate is having lots of meat in it because of the cold climate - we would just have to exclude them).

We finns might be quite near the dwarves then - with our "brothers" in Hungary (getting the spices from there), and of course the russians?

Of course we finns share half (or a bit more) with overall Nordic (Scandinavian) kitchen, but we have also a wealth of a more eastern traditions in it.

So Scandinavian food is not slavic as such, but Finland is a place where these traditions clearly meet.