Track-by-Track: Soundtrack Discussion and Analysis - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lathriel · 12-10-2005, 04:38 PM

Encaitare is away so I will just introduce track 12.

It begins with low brass and violins. It really has an urgent tone to it. I think the eeriest part of this track is when the choir joins in at 1:10. There is a reall build up to it with the trumpets. I don't really like that part because the trumpets are muffled (you kow when they put the muffler in their bells.) It has such a harsh sound bu it does fit Mordor.
However, I do like the track overall because of the choir and the overall creepy mood that is maintained throughout the track.
So what do you think?

Encaitare · 12-17-2005, 12:43 PM

Before I put up the next track, I shall give a few brief thoughts on Track 12.

I love how the horns in LotR (both in the soundtrack and the ones the Rohirrim use) all sound in a perfect fifth. I don't know if that's how medieval horns were; I've been trying to find out, unsuccessfully. Anyhow, since the open fifth is such a pure interval, I think it does succeed in making that sound meant to inspire warriors in battle.

The choir is lovely and eerie. I did a bit of searching and found this for the lyrics:

Quote:

Coll am
na waewath goeyl

Tellin i Neder
Gurth renia

Meditha han phan
Meditha ar dhon

[Source]

Borne aloft
By fell winds.

The Nine have come
Death has taken wing.

He will eat it all
Eat all the world.

This sounds right to me, although the lyrics only make sense in the EE DVD, when Gandalf and the Witch-King face off.

Now for the next track! There is a low playing of the Rohan theme at the very beginning. Then there are these astonishing chords at 0:50, which I think is one of the most beautiful progressions in the whole score, and I admire its simplicity. I listened to it several times and figured out the chords to that little section (0:50-1:07). I think it's right, although maybe I messed up an inversion. The key is A minor:

i VI6 i v6 i VI6 iii6 VII6/4 VI

By the end of the phrase, it's moved into F major and arpeggiates in a little fanfare. Then it moves quickly into music akin to that of Mordor. At 1:47 the choir comes back in. Here, the two sites I've been using conflict. A Magpie's Nest says that the Ringwraith words that I quoted above are what the choir is saying; Gwaith-i-Phethdain says it's this:

Quote:

Dollost - dîr cuiol
u-'ar nin degi!

Le echelithar aen
Athar fuin ban
Rhaw lîn mannen
Ind tham lîn
Lanc na chen be-thobas.

Anant i vaethor ú-ritha
Hên Rohan
Fim sui anghathel
Bain a goeol.

Na vedui istant
Na vedui cenn
Dîr ú-naun hon...
Vess e tiriant.

You fool - no living man
Can kill me!

You will be borne away
Beyond all darkness;
Your flesh devoured;
Your shriveled mind
Left naked to the lidless eye.

But still the soldier did not move,
Child of Rohan,
Slender as a steel-blade,
Fair yet terrible.

Too late he knew,
Too late saw,
This was no man...
He looked upon a woman.

I'm inclined to go with the first one because it seems to fit better. The track closes on another triumphant fanfare.

12-17-2005, 06:27 PM

Hello all. Magpie here. I found this thread by following information in my site statistics and was intrigued by the discussion so I've been following along for a few weeks now.

I know this is primarily a music discussion, not lyric, but I thought I could provide some information on the discrepancy in lyrics between my site and Ryszard's (G-i-P).

The poem Angmar can be found in an article about David Salo in a magazine issue devoted to the LOTR soundtracks. It says, "Witch King Attacks Eowyn". The poem The Nazgul can be found in the same issue in an article about ROTK. It says, "The Nazgul attack Minas Tirith".

You will notice that G-i-P lists both poems as being contained in The Fields of the Pelennor. For Angmar. it gives a time stamp. For The Nazgul, it provides phonetic syllables which match the words in that poem.

Since the phonetic lyrics come from the LOTR Symphony, we know they were sung there. Also, I know someone who had a score from the symphony and she confirmed they were sung to The Ringwraith Theme. (That section of track 13 is considered a Ringwraith variant.)

I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.

I'm not trying to defend my position... I just never expect anyone to take anything on faith. Usually when I disagree with someone, like in this track, I try to explain my opinion. For some reason, I didn't do that - probably because I was rushing a lot to get those last cue by cues up. It is my intention to some day email Ryszard with my corrections. I haven't taken the time to yet, but he hasn't updated his movie work in awhile either. I suspect we're both just busy.

I'm happy that my work has been a support for this lovely discussion. I'll keep following along, if you don't mind. And watch the What's New section of A Magpie's Nest for updates in the next few weeks.

edit:
ahem... interesting label I have there, "newly deceased". I can assure you I feel quite healthy... except for this cough.

Kitanna · 12-17-2005, 11:32 PM

This is going to be a quick post and hopefully I can say something a little bit longer later, but the beginning of this song always reminds me of Mars: The Bringer of War. It's just that opening beat that is so soft I have to turn my speakers up all the way to hear it.

Encaitare · 12-18-2005, 12:06 AM

Welcome to the Downs, Magpie! It's great to see you here, especially since your site has provided such excellent references and information to help in our discussions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magpie

I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.

I agree; I was going crazy trying to follow the Angmar lyrics along with the music and it just wouldn't work... finally I tried it with The Nazgul, and lo and behold, it fit.

Enjoy reading the thread, and feel free to put your two cents in at anytime!

Lathriel · 12-19-2005, 06:40 PM

I really like the beginning of this track. Every time I hear it I picture the Rohirrim gathering at the edge of the Pellenor Fields. For the rest I don't have much to say about this track.

Encaitare · 12-24-2005, 01:41 PM

I think we'll take a brief hiatus during the holiday season, since everyone will surely be so busy (myself very much included!). Have a lovely Christmas/Hanukkah/Yule/any other winter holiday or lack thereof, my dears!

12-10-2005, 04:38 PM	#1
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Track 12:Ash and Smoke Encaitare is away so I will just introduce track 12. It begins with low brass and violins. It really has an urgent tone to it. I think the eeriest part of this track is when the choir joins in at 1:10. There is a reall build up to it with the trumpets. I don't really like that part because the trumpets are muffled (you kow when they put the muffler in their bells.) It has such a harsh sound bu it does fit Mordor. However, I do like the track overall because of the choir and the overall creepy mood that is maintained throughout the track. So what do you think? __________________ Back again

12-17-2005, 11:32 PM	#4
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	This is going to be a quick post and hopefully I can say something a little bit longer later, but the beginning of this song always reminds me of Mars: The Bringer of War. It's just that opening beat that is so soft I have to turn my speakers up all the way to hear it. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

12-19-2005, 06:40 PM	#6
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	I really like the beginning of this track. Every time I hear it I picture the Rohirrim gathering at the edge of the Pellenor Fields. For the rest I don't have much to say about this track. __________________ Back again

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12-17-2005, 06:27 PM	#3
Magpie Guest Posts: n/a	Hello all. Magpie here. I found this thread by following information in my site statistics and was intrigued by the discussion so I've been following along for a few weeks now. I know this is primarily a music discussion, not lyric, but I thought I could provide some information on the discrepancy in lyrics between my site and Ryszard's (G-i-P). The poem Angmar can be found in an article about David Salo in a magazine issue devoted to the LOTR soundtracks. It says, "Witch King Attacks Eowyn". The poem The Nazgul can be found in the same issue in an article about ROTK. It says, "The Nazgul attack Minas Tirith". You will notice that G-i-P lists both poems as being contained in The Fields of the Pelennor. For Angmar. it gives a time stamp. For The Nazgul, it provides phonetic syllables which match the words in that poem. Since the phonetic lyrics come from the LOTR Symphony, we know they were sung there. Also, I know someone who had a score from the symphony and she confirmed they were sung to The Ringwraith Theme. (That section of track 13 is considered a Ringwraith variant.) I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this. I'm not trying to defend my position... I just never expect anyone to take anything on faith. Usually when I disagree with someone, like in this track, I try to explain my opinion. For some reason, I didn't do that - probably because I was rushing a lot to get those last cue by cues up. It is my intention to some day email Ryszard with my corrections. I haven't taken the time to yet, but he hasn't updated his movie work in awhile either. I suspect we're both just busy. I'm happy that my work has been a support for this lovely discussion. I'll keep following along, if you don't mind. And watch the What's New section of A Magpie's Nest for updates in the next few weeks. edit: ahem... interesting label I have there, "newly deceased". I can assure you I feel quite healthy... except for this cough.

12-24-2005, 01:41 PM	#7
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I think we'll take a brief hiatus during the holiday season, since everyone will surely be so busy (myself very much included!). Have a lovely Christmas/Hanukkah/Yule/any other winter holiday or lack thereof, my dears!