Stupid Elf Tricks...

[Gurthang]

Snow, I conceed; that's not one of the points I am talking about, though. Perhaps a little chain-walking I can even live with. It's the fact that Legolas comes up as an untouchable character in certain situations, but he is not like that all the time.

'Oh, look, a huge hairy mumak. Instead of running away, I think I'll run towards it. Just a little grab, a couple simple swings up, kill a few enemies, cut a foot-thick rope, release a few arrows into a running oliphaunt's skull and slide down it's trunk like I was merely slicing cheese.'

Take that into contrast with a Legolas who can't even fight his way through a crowd to save Aragorn in RotK and you've got a pretty up-and-down character.

True, it is a fantasy universe, and so things can happen that aren't realistic, but it's more than that that bothers me. It's like PJ wants to use Legolas to shoot elves up on an unassailable pedestal. The stunts are something that an elf, even in a fantasy world, should not be able to do.

[Kath]

As I recall, it seemed to me when I watched that sequence that it necessarily involved Legolas' arm passing through his upper body. Or something like that. "Superhuman" abilities I can live with. Anatomically impossible maneuvres I cannot.

How so? As I recall he was standing with his back slightly to the horse. He then grabbed the reins (or the neck, I don't remember which) with his left hand and bent his elbow as he swung up, thereby turning his body around and landing facing forward. And even if I have that completely wrong and he was in fact standing facing the horse and grabbed it with his right hand, it's still not impossible.

But I will grant that it does bring you out of the fantasy the film has created. The reason that the episode with the cave troll is largely ignored is likely because most people (wrongly or rightly) find Fellowship to be the truest to the books and so are more involved in the fantasy, and are pulled out less easily. Also, the focus is not on Legolas for as long as it is with the shield or Oliphaunt stunts. It's fast and over quickly, moving the action on to someone else straight away.

The thing is that I did actually notice it and it bugged me and always has. I didn't like Legolas from the beginning though which wasn't a great help. But it's just like the problem we were discussing in SbS, when he jumps off the troll you can see the switch between CGI and real person, and that was quite jarring. I also saw no real need for it. In the books it was Frodo who was the only one that did any real damage to it, though of course there was not a proper fight. But still I saw no reason to take that act of bravery away from Frodo and give it to a character we know to be strong and brave. It detracts a little from the point of the episode.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

How so? As I recall he was standing with his back slightly to the horse. He then grabbed the reins (or the neck, I don't remember which) with his left hand and bent his elbow as he swung up, thereby turning his body around and landing facing forward. And even if I have that completely wrong and he was in fact standing facing the horse and grabbed it with his right hand, it's still not impossible.

.

It is as a while since I have see it but I have managed a similar manouevre in reverse while falling off horses in my distant youth... not ending up on my feet alas......

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

What is that wonderful in making little imprint when not wearing heavy boots and being nimble and agile and light-footed and not that heavy at all, eh? On a crisp snow crust?

I'd call it quite wonderful when the two Men present are unable to move across the snow without becoming becoming all but buried in it.

Slowly they moved off, and were soon toiling heavily. In places the snow was breast-high, and often Boromir seemed to be swimming or burrowing with his great arms rather than walking.

The difference between this description and the description of Legolas' passage across the snow cannot be explained in terms of agility and light-footedness alone. Either Legolas is a lot lighter than the other two or he is not subject to the same forces that they are. But this is probably best left to the thread which Roa_Aoife linked to above.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

Take that into contrast with a Legolas who can't even fight his way through a crowd to save Aragorn in RotK and you've got a pretty up-and-down character.

Ah, now you may have a point there on inconsistency, but it's not the point with which you started this thread. And, to the extent that there is inconsistency in the portrayal of Legolas' skills, it is not one which would occur to someone at this point in the first film of the three.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

It's like PJ wants to use Legolas to shoot elves up on an unassailable pedestal. The stunts are something that an elf, even in a fantasy world, should not be able to do.

Sorry, but I fail to see much difference, in substance at least if not in style, between these moments and Legolas' snow walking in the book. As for Jackson's reasons for including them, I think that he saw an opportunity to adapt/expand on the way in which Legolas is presented in the book to appeal to a certain type of viewer. While, as I said, I am not a great fan of the shield-surfing scene, I can understand why he did it. And I bet that there are a fair few out there who would cite it as one of their favourite moments of the film or, at the very least, a very moment.

Mind you, he's not that "superhuman". He got the direction of the Orcs route to Isengard completely wrong. Now there's an issue that does annoy me, and I really don't understand why they did not re-dub it on the EE.

Originally Posted by Kath

How so? As I recall he was standing with his back slightly to the horse. He then grabbed the reins (or the neck, I don't remember which) with his left hand and bent his elbow as he swung up, thereby turning his body around and landing facing forward.

I don't doubt that the maneuvre is possible in theory (although undoubtedly dangerous). It just seemed to me that the way in which it was presented on-screen looked impossible.

Originally Posted by Kath

... when he jumps off the troll you can see the switch between CGI and real person, and that was quite jarring.

Hehe. When I was but a mere strip of a Saucepan Man, the best special effects were those produced by Ray Harryhausen et al. Whenever the monster grabbed one of the actors, he or she suddenly turned to plasticene. So, as far as I am concerned, CGI is a vast improvement (although I remain a great admirer of Ray Harryhausen's work).

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Gurthang

Take that into contrast with a Legolas who can't even fight his way through a crowd to save Aragorn in RotK and you've got a pretty up-and-down character.

I would posit the difference there is not an inconsistency but merely the fighting style of Legolas. Simply put Legolas is an open-aired fighter, meaning he is best in open spaces with lots of room to maneuver so a close compact battle is not ideal. That is what happened when he tried to "save" Aragorn. Contrast this with Gimli's fighting style. He would rather be up close and just enough room to swing his axe.

[Roa_Aoife]

I disagree with the pluasibility of the horse trick. Had he swung backwards onto the horse it would have been a common place stunt. but this is not what he did. Legolas swung forward, changed direction spun around, and landed behind Gimli. Laws of Physics aside, such a feat would have required monumental physical strength.

Laws of Physics taken into account, his momentum was frward, not upward, so by all rights he should have gone flying off to the side. *pauses to laugh at this image* "But wait," you say, "he could have used the horse's neck to change direction!" To that I say, he can't have had the proper grip on the horse's neck to keep from flying off to the side enitrely, or his hand would have been unable to slide over the surface of the neck. Unless he's secretly Mr. Fantastic, this wouldn't work.

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I disagree with the pluasibility of the horse trick. Had he swung backwards onto the horse it would have been a common place stunt. but this is not what he did. Legolas swung forward, changed direction spun around, and landed behind Gimli. Laws of Physics aside, such a feat would have required monumental physical strength.

Not to mention that such a force could very well knock the horse over, or at least cause it to stumble or sidestep to keep from falling. Yet the peerless pony moved on as though made of stone...