Is Eru God?

[Firefoot]

Was Eru based off God? Yes. Do they have strong similarities? Certainly. But are they the same? I would have to say no. There are simply too many incongruencies. One of these, Esty has already explained beautifully. LMP, I understand what you are saying... to an extent. But even in Old Testament times God still did seek out relationships with his people. Abraham, Jacob, David... the list goes on. It was in a slightly different way, granted, but Eru does not even take this step. His contact with his creation is very limited. Eru's interest in Arda seems to be largely with concern to his creation as a whole rather than to the individuals in it.

Another issue I have wrestled around with is that one of the Christian beliefs is that God does not test us beyond our strength. Let's look at Frodo... his Quest was inherently beyond his strength. He was set with an impossible task, one he would be forced to fail at (if you can call it failing. But anyway...). And it's pretty explicit that Frodo was meant to bear the Ring, that it was appointed to him - the "by Eru" is implied. There's a reason God sent Jesus to the world rather than having a sinful being appointed to the (for them) impossible task of saving the world. This is not saying that I think Frodo should have been able to destroy the Ring, nor that there should have been a Christ-figure in LotR. I don't think that. But I do think that it is an indicator that Eru is not the same as the Christian God.

I think this may be one mistake I have made in the past, trying to equate Eru too much with God. It has been something of an assumed thing, but it makes more sense to analyse Eru as an independent being, the god of Arda and a representation, or a depiction, of God, but not God himself. Coming back to the translator conceit, I think a line does have to be drawn. The truth is that Middle-earth is fantasy. Even if it is read as a mythology for our world, that doesn't necessarily make Eru God any more than it makes the Greek Zeus God.

[Orominuialwen]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Another issue I have wrestled around with is that one of the Christian beliefs is that God does not test us beyond our strength. Let's look at Frodo... his Quest was inherently beyond his strength. He was set with an impossible task, one he would be forced to fail at (if you can call it failing. But anyway...). And it's pretty explicit that Frodo was meant to bear the Ring, that it was appointed to him - the "by Eru" is implied. There's a reason God sent Jesus to the world rather than having a sinful being appointed to the (for them) impossible task of saving the world. This is not saying that I think Frodo should have been able to destroy the Ring, nor that there should have been a Christ-figure in LotR. I don't think that. But I do think that it is an indicator that Eru is not the same as the Christian God.

But perhaps to destroy the Ring was not the task Frodo was appointed to do. I think that he was meant to bring the Ring to Mount Doom, but nothing more. I think it was meant by Eru for it to be Gollum who unwitttingly destroys the Ring. Frodo believed that it was task to destray the Ring, but he also believed that his 'duty' of sorts was to die doing this. The way I see it, Eru did not intend Frodo to die in the destruction of the ring because he was never meant to be the "all-conquering-Ring-destroyer," as Lalwende says in the What happened at Mount Doom? thread. He was not meant to be a Christ-figure, which is what his death under those circumstances would have made him. Now, if Frodo was mistaken in his belief that he had to die to save the world, then I believe he could have been mistaken in his belief that he actually had to destroy the Ring himself. His believing that was one of his main motivations in getting to Mount Doom, so I think that this belief was necessary to complete his part, but erroneous. (Sorry for my very round-about way of saying this.)

Originally Posted by The Only Real Estel

*He did not provide a way for all races to go to the Undying Lands.

But the point was supposed to be that Men (and possibly Hobbits, although Tolkien never says anything about them in this context) got something different, but possibly better, in that they got to dwell in the halls of Iluvatar. Elves got immortality, and then got to go to the Undying Lands, but Men got something different, in part in my opinion to make up for their shorter earthly lives.


In short, I agree with what lmp has already stated, so that's how I'll vote.