The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books > Chapter-by-Chapter
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2005, 06:48 PM   #1
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Davem wrote:
Quote:
On the second we have a cosmic drama on which depends the fate of the world, both physical & spiritual. Good & Evil confront each other, Evil seems to win, but at the last moment defeats itself & Good is triumphant.
Yes, but I would be very careful about transmuting this metaphorical/spiritual/symbolic point into a literal one. Yes, Eru was involved in the events at Mt. Doom, in both that He is involved in all things in Arda and that He and the Good with which He can be identified are triumphant there.

But it is a huge leap to go from this to questions about Eru "murdering" Gollum. To bridge that gap, you'd have to show that Eru was literally and directly involved, on the most concrete level. In other words, as I see it there is a profound difference between the fall of Numenor and the fall of Gollum. In the former case, Eru directly intervened. The proximate cause of the fall of Numenor was an act of Eru. The proximate cause of Gollum's fall was the step Gollum took. Of course, you could argue that Eru caused him to take that step, but then you'd be denying Gollum's free will. But if you remove Eru any farther from the events, then I think you have to accept my point of view - that Eru did not "intervene" at Mt. Doom (any more than he "intervened" in any and every event in Arda).

In short, I think that unless one wants to deny the free will of Gollum, Frodo, and Sam one must refrain from attributing to Eru any kind of direct agency in the death of Gollum and the destruction of the Ring.
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.