The Powers of the Istari - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

O'Boile · 08-06-2002, 10:16 AM

Yes Feanaro, I read your post. It is simply wrong. You seem to underestimate elves somewhat. Maybe you should read some of the Silmarilion. In it, both Ecthelion and Glorfindel kill balrogs, althhough it costs them their lives. Same for Gandalf the Grey. So while they may not be equal to him, they are close. I think it is safe to assume that Fingolfin is roughly on the same level as they (and thus Gandalf the Grey) are. The whole point is that the wizards are supposed to be roughly equal to (powerful) men and elves. That way the can relate as equals.
Sauron was more powerful than Morgoth at the end of the first age after he had spent most of his spirit. He was not more powerful the Morgoth at the height of his power. Again, in the first war Morgoth is beating the entire Valar until Tulkas enters the fight.
Saruon fights against 5 people, not 2. Gil-Galad, Elrond, Cirdan, Elendil and Isildur. Again, some reading might help improve your knowledge.
A similar comparison would be Gandalf against several of the Nazgul, or perhaps a couple of Balrogs. Equating 2 orcs to the most powerful elves and humans of the time is a little off.
The point is that there is no 'bad guy' tougher than Morgoth at the height of his power. So if they are bad fighters, then who are the good ones?
Next there is a direct quote, (see my above post) where gandalf says that the dark lord is stronger in fact the strongest (or most perilous/dangerous you may interprit that differently), and he does not have the ring at that time. In the same chapter, gandalf says how he stood on a high place and fought with the Sauron, after which he was exausted, but he had managed to distract the eye for a short time. Sounds like Sauron is stronger to me. So, unless Gandalf does not know much about even his own strength, it would appear that Sauron was the stronger of the two.

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08-06-2002, 10:16 AM	#22
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	Yes Feanaro, I read your post. It is simply wrong. You seem to underestimate elves somewhat. Maybe you should read some of the Silmarilion. In it, both Ecthelion and Glorfindel kill balrogs, althhough it costs them their lives. Same for Gandalf the Grey. So while they may not be equal to him, they are close. I think it is safe to assume that Fingolfin is roughly on the same level as they (and thus Gandalf the Grey) are. The whole point is that the wizards are supposed to be roughly equal to (powerful) men and elves. That way the can relate as equals. Sauron was more powerful than Morgoth at the end of the first age after he had spent most of his spirit. He was not more powerful the Morgoth at the height of his power. Again, in the first war Morgoth is beating the entire Valar until Tulkas enters the fight. Saruon fights against 5 people, not 2. Gil-Galad, Elrond, Cirdan, Elendil and Isildur. Again, some reading might help improve your knowledge. A similar comparison would be Gandalf against several of the Nazgul, or perhaps a couple of Balrogs. Equating 2 orcs to the most powerful elves and humans of the time is a little off. The point is that there is no 'bad guy' tougher than Morgoth at the height of his power. So if they are bad fighters, then who are the good ones? Next there is a direct quote, (see my above post) where gandalf says that the dark lord is stronger in fact the strongest (or most perilous/dangerous you may interprit that differently), and he does not have the ring at that time. In the same chapter, gandalf says how he stood on a high place and fought with the Sauron, after which he was exausted, but he had managed to distract the eye for a short time. Sounds like Sauron is stronger to me. So, unless Gandalf does not know much about even his own strength, it would appear that Sauron was the stronger of the two.