LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 09 - The Last Debate

[Alphaelin]

This is a difficult chapter for me to get through, probably because it's somewhat like 'The Council of Elrond' in FOTR: structurally, really really important because it ties up loose ends and sets up so much of the remainder of the book...but I don't seem to be as engaged in this chapter as I am in most of the rest of LOTR.

I'll take up Davem's challenge and focus on the debate between the Captains about the next step. The thing I find most interesting here is the choice in front of them. As Gandalf says,

This war then is without final hope, as Denethor perceived...You have only a choice of evils;

Interestingly, the first reaction to Gandalf's speech is from Prince Imrahil, and he is not happy with what he thinks Gandalf is saying:

Then would you have us retreat to Minas Tirith, or Dol Amroth, or to Dunharrow, and sit there like children on sand-castles when the tide is flowing?

I've always wondered if he's unhappy because he would rather go out and face Mordor rather than hiding behind his walls and being perceived as a coward, or if he himself recognizes the importance of buying time for the Ringbearer.

Another thing I've noticed about this chapter is that even if the Ringbearer succeeds, Sauron will not be completely destroyed.

If it [the Ring] is destroyed, then he will fall; and his fall will be so low that none can forsee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed forever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. And so a great evil of this world will be removed.

Hmmm, falling past the point of rising again...losing the best part of his strength, along with the things made with it...being maimed forever. But *not* being utterly destroyed. Is this because of Sauron's origins as a Maia? And come to think of it, Morgoth the Vala wasn't destroyed either! Eru cast him into the Void beyond the doors of the world, but didn't kill him. He's still out there somewhere...




Sauron after the fall of Barad Dur: "I'm not dead yet!"

[davem]

Victory cannot be achieved by arms, whether you sit here to endure siege after siege, or march out to be overwhelmed beyond the River. You have only a choice of evils; and prudence would counsel you to strengthen such strong places as you have, and there await the onset; for so shall the time before your end be made a little longer.'

Gandalf sums up the situation pretty starkly. They are fighting without any real hope. the most logical reaction would be to run & gather what strength they could to hold out as long as possible. The only 'hope' of victory is no real hope at all - that somehow Frodo will find a way to destroy the Ring. What hope Gandalf himself has of that happening is not made explicit. What he is doing here though is to confront Imrahil in particular, & through him the rest of the commanders, with what they actually have been doing for so long - he says the 'wisest' course is to run & hole up. Imrahil responds by condemning that policy & Gandalf comes back with 'Well, if its such a bad idea, why have you been doing exactly that all this time. It has to be said. The Captains of the West need to have a mirror held up to themselves.

Have you not done this and little more in all the days of Denethor? But no! I said this would be prudent. I do not counsel prudence. I said victory could not be achieved by arms. I still hope for victory, but not by arms.

Exactly what 'hope' Gandalf has is not clear - is it hope that Frodo will succeed, or that in some way Eru will make everything well? Yet he is not so full of 'hope' that he has lost touch with reality:

'Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wberein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.

In short, he is reiterating the advice he gave to Frodo: 'All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.' Life is a battleground - 'sin is behovely' as Julian put it. All one can do is one's best, & live in hope.

Again, we see Aragorn's pro-active defiance of Sauron - he declares that he has shown himself to Sauron in the Palantir. Basically, he is telling his fellow leaders that he has thrown down the gauntlet to Sauron. In Frodo's words he is saying 'I purpose to enter Mordor - I do not ask anyone to go with me.' Or in his own words to Eomer: 'I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn: willl you aid me, or thwart me?' Everything about Aragorn's behaviour seems to be an attempt to make Sauron believe he has the Ring.

'As Aragorn has begun, so we must go on. We must push Sauron to his last throw. We must call out his hidden strength, so that he shall empty his land. We must march out to meet him at once. We must make ourselves the bait, though his jaws should close on us. He will take that bait, in hope and in greed, for he will think that in such rashness he sees the pride of the new Ringlord: and he will say: "So! he pushes out his neck too soon and too far. Let him come on, and behold I will have him in a trap from which he cannot escape. There I will crush him, and what he has taken in his insolence shall be mine again for ever."

We see again that claiming the Ring is not the same thing as mastering it. Even if Aragorn has the Ring he can still be defeated & the Ring wrested back.

Again, Gandalf reiterates the hopelessness of their position:

'We must walk open-eyed into that trap, with courage, but small hope for ourselves. For, my lords, it may well prove that we ourselves shall perish utterly in a black battle far from the living lands; so that even if Barad-dur be thrown down, we shall not live to see a new age. But this, I deem, is our duty. And better so than to perish nonetheless--as we surely shall, If we sit here--and know as we die that no new age shall be.

Not only is he now telling them that there is little hope of survival in their confrontation, but that it would be better not to survive it if it means that Sauron gains the victory. They must do everything they can because its better to die doing what's right than to live as slaves. This is a difficult idea - because the Captains have not only to make that decision for themselves but also for those who serve them.

At length Aragorn spoke. 'As I have begun, so I will go on. We come now to the very brink, where hope and despair are akin. To waver is to fall. Let none now reject the counsels of Gandalf, whose long labours against Sauron come at last to their test. But for him all would long ago have been lost. Nonetheless I do not yet claim to command any man. Let others choose as they will.'

Hope & despair are now 'akin'. To 'waver is to fall' - or as Galadriel said 'The quest stands on the edge of a knife: stray but a little & it will fail, to the ruin of all.'

Eomer's response is simple & to the point:

'As for myself,' said Eomer, 'I have little knowledge of these deep matters; but I need it not. This I know, and it is enough, that as my friend Aragorn succoured me and my people, so I will aid him when he calls. I will go.'

He will trust Aragorn, & repay the 'debt' he owes him. This sums up the attitude of his folk. Eomer, interestingly, refers to Aragorn not as his 'king' but as his friend. His friend is in need so he will do whatever is necessary to aid him. Imrahil's position is diferent. Aragorn is his 'liege-lord', & he will obey his command.

'As for me,' said Imrahil, 'the Lord Aragorn I hold to be my liege-lord, whether he claim it or no. His wish is to me a command. I will go also.

I wonder which attitude Aragorn preferred? His last words sum up again his own position:

'If this be jest, then it is too bitter for laughter. Nay, it is the last move in a great jeopardy, and for one side or the other it will bring the end of the game.'

He has fixed upon his goal, & nothing will now deter him from it. Hope & despair are truly akin, & like Frodo on Amon Hen caught between the Voice & the Eye he too must have 'writhed' - yet, also like Frodo, he was able to seperate himself from those two 'powers' & make his choice:

Then he drew Anduril and held it up glittering in the sun. 'You shall not be sheathed again until the last battle is fought,' he said.

[Lalwendë]

Going against what we might expect of fiction in terms of entertainment, Tolkien presents the reader with the proceedings of in-depth meetings or Councils in LotR; they convey a lot of useful information, and they are intended to show how decisions are reached, but they might be expected to make for dull reading. Meetings in general are neither action filled nor are they magical, but Tolkien writes of them in a compelling style. In both this chapter and in The Council of Elrond he manages to present fascinating and complex discussions. Not only that, but he also uses the proceedings to explain to the reader how seemingly reckless plans are made. Arguments for and against different actions are broken down and dispensed of with care, and without boring the reader. I think this reflects his own skills in presenting arguments. As an example, On Fairy Stories demonstrates how he could take a topic and break it down into relevant areas, discussing each and examining, then dismissing, arguments until he came to a conclusion.

Gandalf takes an interesting role in this council. Is he the chairperson? Or the invited expert? At this stage it might be expected that Aragorn, or perhaps Imrahil acting as Steward, would lead discussion but it is Gandalf who does so. Perhaps this is as he is relatively impartial compared to the two Men who would make obvious candidates to take the lead. It is also a credit to them that they allow Gandalf to do this and do not immediately seek the ‘power’ of leading the talk.

In this chapter Gandalf demonstrates his sheer mastery of ‘counsel’. Without any preamble he gets straight to the point and shows those assembled exactly the situation that they face. He even goes as far as to begin by addressing the situation as negatively as possible, yet he does this in order to have the leaders gathered there consider the options realistically:

I do not bid you despair, as he did, but to ponder the truth in these words.

Gandalf is addressing a group of leaders who are fresh from a great victory, and it would be all too easy at this point for them to become complacent. This is why he immediately states the gravity of the situation. The following interchange between Imrahil and Gandalf illustrates why Gandalf has to approach the matter in this way. He is about to introduce a strategy that might seem like madness and so he must first have the leaders address the reason why previous strategies under Denethor have failed:

You have only a choice of evils; and prudence would counsel you to strengthen such strong places as you have, and there await the onset; for so shall the time before your end be made a little longer.'

'Then you would have us retreat to Minas Tirith, or Dol Amroth, or to Dunharrow, and there sit like children on sand-castles when the tide is flowing?' said Imrahil.

'That would be no new counsel,' said Gandalf. 'Have you not done this and little more in all the days of Denethor? But no! I said this would be prudent. I do not counsel prudence. I said victory could not be achieved by arms.

Gandalf then reveals why he proposes a new strategy, and talks openly of The Ring at last:

For into the midst of all these policies comes the Ring of Power, the foundation of Barad-dur, and the hope of Sauron.

After pressing on the group assembled exactly why preventing Sauron from getting the Ring should be the next and ultimate objective, he also underlines that this is not a task which will destroy evil for ever. But likewise, this kind of seemingly desperate task has had to be carried out before and will probably have to be faced again in many years to come; they are not the only leaders in all the years of the world in what they now face.

Only after preparing the ground for his strategy does he invite the others to speak and contribute; he has gained their interest and now he describes what he proposes, his ‘counsel’. But this is no ordinary ‘counsel’. Gandalf has prepared the ground to present his argument carefully and skilfully. He has shown the group the worst that can happen, he has shown them the despair inherent in their situation, has dismissed the alternatives and then he gives them what he proposes, which is a suicide mission. In our position having read the book, we know that events will not turn out that way, but viewed at this point, what Gandalf suggests is madness.

Gandalf builds his words up into a crescendo at this point:

We must push Sauron to his last throw. We must call out his hidden strength, so that he shall empty his land. We must march out to meet him at once. We must make ourselves the bait, though his jaws should close on us. He will take that bait, in hope and in greed, for he will think that in such rashness he sees the pride of the new Ringlord: and he will say: "So! he pushes out his neck too soon and too far. Let him come on, and behold I will have him in a trap from which he cannot escape. There I will crush him, and what he has taken in his insolence shall be mine again for ever."

'We must walk open-eyed into that trap, with courage, but small hope for ourselves. For, my lords, it may well prove that we ourselves shall perish utterly in a black battle far from the living lands; so that even if Barad-dur be thrown down, we shall not live to see a new age. But this, I deem, is our duty. And better so than to perish nonetheless--as we surely shall, If we sit here--and know as we die that no new age shall be.'

Four sentences begin with ‘we must’, then he repeatedly uses the words ‘he will’ and even uses the words he can imagine (foresee?) Sauron using. This is where Gandalf shifts into another gear using words descriptive of action, telling the assembled group what is going to happen, giving objectives. His words are clear, almost blunt. He is able to do this at this point as he has gained the attention of the others. He finishes off by talking of duty, the possibility, almost certainty, of death, but stirring the listeners into wanting to be courageous. After he has spoken this time, there is silence.

Aragorn is first to speak having considered the words and he has been stirred to approval. He answers for himself alone. He says that Gandalf’s proposal ought to be approved, but that everyone must make up their own mind. Gandalf has appealed directly to each listener’s personal sense of duty; they all quickly follow up Aragorn in mandating the proposal.

Gandalf gets the approval of all the leaders concerned before allowing room for debate, the time to get into the details which could have bogged the meeting down. He is the kind of chairperson every such council or meeting should have, as he unequivocally states his position and seeks approval before anyone can get into details and arguments. Time is short, and he knows this. And maybe this shows why strong-willed leaders such as Denethor did not like Gandalf’s ‘counsel’; he is skilled at getting the point across and an expert in persuading an audience to his view. Yet he does not give the appearance of ‘forcing’ anyone into approval. To disagree with counsel like that might make any leader seem churlish, even if they were strong minded enough to argue against Gandalf.

[Galadriel55]

Legolas and Gimli have a curious thing going on where anytime they have a polite disagreement and one of them runs out of arguments they still want to put in the last word and answer with a vague statement like "to that Elves don't know the answer" or "Dwarves do not look that far ahead" (paraphrased from memory). It seems to work in their weird relationship dynamic that whoever loses the debate gets to have the satisfaction of the last word, and everyone is happy.

The flashback to the remainder of Aragorn's story is not just demanded by the curiosity of him showing up unexpectedly on enemy ships, but is also hinted at by his words to Merry at the Houses of Healing about clearing his path with fire and sword and not having eaten or slept. If we weren't impressed by him in The Paths of the Dead, we have to be now. We get a sense of the terror of the Dead and the strength required to keep them in obedience through more eyes now: not just Gimli but all the people that they meet, friend and foe alike. I believe the most terrified people during the attack of the dead were the chained rowing slaves, experiencing the same fear as the others around them but unable to act on the impulse to run or hide. It's the same chains that saved them though, preventing them from jumping overboard in the same madness as their masters. Though we know practically nothing of Angbor, the fact that he stayed to meet Aragorn automatically makes him a likable character - a brave and responsible leader.

[Formendacil]

Tolkien's narrative choice to make the arrival of the black fleet at the Battle of the Pelennor a eucatastrophe is the cause of this chapter. For that reason, half of it really isn't in the movies, not in this position anyway. It's the sort of chapter that would make a killer flashback episode in a television series, especially if you consider that what's going on "at present" (i.e. planning the assault on the Black Gate) is directly tied to what happened "in the past" (Aragorn's march through the Paths and his victories in the South.

"The Last Debate" is very much a high-level view of the plot, looking at the War from Sauron's level more than any other. Arguably, to Sauron, Aragorn's victory at Pelargir was more significant than the Pelennor. This was a supernatural victory and one made by the candidate he most suspects to have the Ring. Meanwhile, the Pelennor--from Sauron's perspective--was more of a mixed bag. Losing his cloud cover AND the Witch-king in one battle is ominous, but it was an acceptable--and temporary--setback once the Rohirrim overthrew Saruman and Aragorn succeeded at Pelargir. And, from Sauron's point of view, it was luck not skill on the part of the West, since Gandalf appears to have been quite ineffective during it. If Gandalf quails to face the Witch-king and Aragorn has the Ring, this is good news for Sauron.