LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 08 - The Houses of Healing

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I like the idea that the scents recall cultural memories in each patient and that they bring each 'home' once more. This would be a fitting cure for the ailments they are suffering, which again are differing. Faramir is suffering from grief while Eowyn and Merry are suffering from 'the Black shadow'.

But one thing stands out for me as not fitting into a cultural pattern and that is one of the effects associated with Eowyn:

Quote:
an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains hight beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.


This does not seem to fit with any cultural ideas of the Rohirrim. They are not a sea-faring people. In fact, this would fit more with Faramir given the maritime history of the Numenoreans. Strangely, some of the words associated with Faramir actually sound more fitting to Eowyn:

Quote:
the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.


Hmmm...Perhaps the scents evoke not personalities, nor even cultural memories, but dreams, or that which the patient yearns for. It is quite easy to see Eowyn yearning for the 'escape' of empty seashores and the grandeur of mountains; the images used to describe the scent when she is treated are evocative of wide open spaces and freedom. But again, the words used for Faramir have me a little foxed.

Interesting idea, Lal, a dream of something they desire but have never known. Yet would this suit Merry's scent? I'm not sure.

Grief indeed is part of Faramir's wound, yet Aragorn does link Faramir's illness with the Shadow:

Originally Posted by Tolkien via Aragorn

"... How do you read this matter?" [Imrahil]

"Weariness, grief for his father's mood, a wound, and over all the Black Breath," said Aragorn. "He is a man of staunch will,for already he had come close under the Shadow before ever he rode to battle on the out-walls. Slowly the dark must have crept on him, even as he found and strove to hold his outpost. Would that I could have been here sooner!"

I think we have to recall that the Rohirrim are not native to Rohan, but are Northmen, come down from the Vales of the Anduin "between the furthest ranges of the Misty Mountains and the northernmost parts of Mirkwood", to quote Appendix A. I read the scent of Eowyn as an ancestral call reaching far back into her people's past. The Northmen were of a different line than the Numenoreans, descending from the Middle peoples rather than the Edain and ultimately of course harkening back to the Hildor, the Aftercomers, who awoke in Hildorien, on the shores of the East Sea. So we have this sea thing again, as a universal symbol.

Interesting that you think the words associated with Faramir would suit Eowyn better, as I absolutely have no sense that they would at all, quite otherwise in fact, for it is the Gondorians who are awash in nostalgic memory somewhat akin to that of the elves. The first sunrise, after all, was in the West, over Aman and Numenor, no?

And so, in Eowyn and Faramir, the two 'strains' of the Hildor, reunite.

But then again, "Dome of Stars" is a name for Osgiliath, where Faramir was wounded. Do we have Aragorn actually acting as a matchmaker here?

Still and all, what are dreams made on? Desire for what would be or what was or a little of both?

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

It would seem that the Nazgul effect a loss of perspective, and their victims despair no longer being grounded in a reality, but lost in their own darkened distorted thoughts. (Sounds a lot like major Depression, doesn't it?) This makes me question whether the scent each patient smelled was not what they yearned for, but rather what might comfort them, whether real or imagined. Perhaps then Aragorn guessed that these were the scents best suited for each. Being knowledgeable in history and well traveled it would seem possible, and I think I might be reiterating the thoughts expressed earlier.

Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

One more thought about Frodo’s illness, if you will indulge me, I am wondering if Aragorn might have sought Elrond out to learn more of healing such maladies as Frodo recovered in Rivendell. If that were the case the hobbit might possibly have helped the king in a round about way, though at the time it was harrowing.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

Perhaps Anduril remained in camp. Or, perhaps, Anduril cannot be considered an obvious token of his claim. After all, in its reforging, Narsil received quite a bit of redecoration that would differentiate it from its former self, in addition to being encased in a clearly non-Numenorean sheath from Lothlorien onwards.

Furthermore, in the eyes of the beholder, Anduril is pretty much just a sword. The Elendilmir is pretty much one-of-a-kind, as is the Elessar. The royal banner is also immediately recognisable as belonging to the king. But Anduril. Unless one had it pointed out to them that it was Narsil reforged, there is no reason to think that anybody would think it anything other than an ordinary sword. After all, I doubt if there was anything about its general look to immediately mark it out as Elendil's sword. I doubt that even Denethor or Imrahil would recognise it at a glance as Narsil reforged.

Of course, Aragorn might just have left it in camp...

[Alphaelin]

But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

Good question about Anduril, Hilde! This could have been a deliberate omission on Tolkien's part, as if to show that a good ruler/leader does not depend on phyiscal strength or force to maintain his (or her) position. Anduril isn't necessary for Aragorn in this chapter, as this is like another test of his fitness to take up the crown -- one in which the sword is useless. Here he must use his knowledge to save lives instead of taking them. A leader who only knows how to fight isn't much use after the war is over.

Or as Formendacil says, he could have just left Anduril in camp

Maybe the ability to heal, in this chapter, can be read at more than one level. Gondor needs rescue in more than just the sense of 'outsiders attacking the city'. 'The Pyre of Denethor' gave the idea that Gondor was sick in its very heart...in the person of the Steward. As Faramir, Eowyn and Merry need healing at both the phyisical and emotional levels, so does Gondor (the city and its people) need healing from the physical damage of battle and the psychic damage of years of despair and fear. Aragorn helped rescue the city and its inhabitants from the immediate danger of destruction in the Battle of Pelennor Field. In this chapter he must show them that he can heal their long-term hurts.

Or maybe I am just reading too much into this chapter.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Esty

Which is your favourite line?

For me, it is this:

'Few other griefs amid the ill chances of this world have more bitterness and shame for a man's heart than to behold the love of a lady so fair and brave that cannot be returned.'

Seeing as I am a female, I cannot vouch for these words from Aragorn. But this statement made him all the more endearing - swoon-worthy, if you will. (How I missed that word.) There is no question about Aragorn's faithfulness to Arwen despite the distance between them; in The Passing of the Grey Company we have witnessed a bitter exchange between Aragorn and Éowyn that left us without a doubt that Aragorn cannot and will not reciprocate Éowyn's feelings for him, no matter how much it hurt him to see her love him hopelessly. There is also that subtle reference to Arwen in Rivendell which Éowyn did not catch. After all, his primary motivation for doing all that he does is his love for Arwen.

But in the conversation preceding Éowyn's healing we see that Aragorn is not completely oblivious to the effects he had on Éowyn. (Nor is Éomer, although there is no mention of him in relevance to the issue previously.) It is touching that Aragorn, despite his seemingly harsh manner towards Éowyn in the aforementioned chapter, shows that he actually cares a lot about her. I can almost see the guilt solidify in his mind (or maybe it's just me), but Éomer was quick to reassure him that he does not hold him responsible for whatever has befallen his sister. And the statement I quoted above reveals a slight regret on his part for not being able to love Éowyn back. (Dare we think that if Arwen were not in the picture, Éowyn would be Queen of Gondor? )

Indeed what a different world we would have if all men would think along those lines in such circumstances as Aragorn and Éowyn were in.

One of the things that I wondered about most the first time I read this chapter is this glaring difference in Éowyn's healing from that of Faramir's and Merry's: Aragorn left before she woke up, and instead of calling her himself he passes the task to Éomer. What could be the possible reason behind this? Was he afraid that her feelings for him would be rekindled, in fact be even stronger, seeing that she is indebted to him for her life? Or did he just think that Éomer is more appropriate for the task, what with him fearing that his sister was dead and all?

Further thoughts on this to come. (My, I seem inspired by personal experience! )

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

. . . . There is no question about Aragorn's faithfulness to Arwen despite the distance between them; in The Passing of the Grey Company we have witnessed a bitter exchange between Aragorn and Éowyn that left us without a doubt that Aragorn cannot and will not reciprocate Éowyn's feelings for him, no matter how much it hurt him to see her love him hopelessly. There is also that subtle reference to Arwen in Rivendell which Éowyn did not catch. After all, his primary motivation for doing all that he does is his love for Arwen.

But in the conversation preceding Éowyn's healing we see that Aragorn is not completely oblivious to the effects he had on Éowyn. (Nor is Éomer, although there is no mention of him in relevance to the issue previously.) It is touching that Aragorn, despite his seemingly harsh manner towards Éowyn in the aforementioned chapter, shows that he actually cares a lot about her. I can almost see the guilt solidify in his mind (or maybe it's just me), but Éomer was quick to reassure him that he does not hold him responsible for whatever has befallen his sister. And the statement I quoted above reveals a slight regret on his part for not being able to love Éowyn back. (Dare we think that if Arwen were not in the picture, Éowyn would be Queen of Gondor? )

Indeed what a different world we would have if all men would think along those lines in such circumstances as Aragorn and Éowyn were in.

. . . .

Lhunda, are you suggesting that one of the main purposes or functions of Eowyn as a character is to provide an opportunity for Tolkien to explore Aragorn's temptation? Aragorn foregoes using his power over someone, a trait which most (if not all ) men lack? The desire to use a talent, a skill, an ability is, Tolkien says in "On Fairey Stories" a dominant characteristic of mankind--he even says it is a god-like attribute when he describes it as the urge to subcreate. Yet here Tolkien has Aragorn walk away from his "Ring".

This would suggest that Tolkien was less interested in exploring female psyche--something which makes Eowyn very different from Arwen and Galadriel after all and is anomylous in the tale--but was simply looking for a way to dramatise Aragorn's self discipline and special heroism.

[Lalwendë]

At the very end of the next chapter is the hint that maybe Anduril was simply kept sheathed:

Then he drew Anduril and held it up glittering in the sun. 'You shall not be sheathed again until the last battle is fought,' he said.

If so, then that was a wise move on the part of Aragorn. The tales quickly spread around Minas Tirith that 'the king' had returned after he had been into the Houses of Healing; previous to this, it was more diplomatic to keep such a highly symbolic item as Anduril hidden. He literally kept his Kingship under cover.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

One of the things that I wondered about most the first time I read this chapter is this glaring difference in Éowyn's healing from that of Faramir's and Merry's: Aragorn left before she woke up, and instead of calling her himself he passes the task to Éomer. What could be the possible reason behind this? Was he afraid that her feelings for him would be rekindled, in fact be even stronger, seeing that she is indebted to him for her life? Or did he just think that Éomer is more appropriate for the task, what with him fearing that his sister was dead and all?

I've thought of that one myself, as it did seem to stick out as rather odd behaviour on Aragorn's part. But thinking about it, his behaviour here seems very noble and indeed, caring. He realises that he was the catalyst for Eowyn seeking to go to war and even reveals a little of his feelings on the matter. If he had been there when she woke then this might have appeared to Eowyn to be a 'sign' of something other than simple caring for a fallen comrade. Whether or not she actually would think that we cannot say, but Aragorn clearly sees that there is this risk.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Lhunda, are you suggesting that one of the main purposes or functions of Eowyn as a character is to provide an opportunity for Tolkien to explore Aragorn's temptation? Aragorn foregoes using his power over someone, a trait which most (if not all ) men lack? The desire to use a talent, a skill, an ability is, Tolkien says in "On Fairey Stories" a dominant characteristic of mankind--he even says it is a god-like attribute when he describes it as the urge to subcreate. Yet here Tolkien has Aragorn walk away from his "Ring".

This would suggest that Tolkien was less interested in exploring female psyche--something which makes Eowyn very different from Arwen and Galadriel after all and is anomylous in the tale--but was simply looking for a way to dramatise Aragorn's self discipline and special heroism.

I think Tolkien explores Eowyn's psyche in some depth. In this instance he is exploring Aragorn's psyche. Aragorn does not use his 'power' over Eowyn because it would be wrong to do so. He certainly was not averse to using his power over a weaker opponent if it was necessary - he does exactly that with Gollum when he captures him - & so does Gandalf in the dungeons of Thranduil. I think this is a case of circumstances altering cases.