What are your most hated parts about the L.O.T.R movies?

[Lalwendë]

Whenever Gimli is turned into the butt of all the jokes! Poor lad!

Messing about with the Faramir storyline.

Dragging out the whole approach and build up to the Battle of Helm's Deep by having bizarre side stories with Aragorn falling off cliffs.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

On the whole, I think most of the problems I have with Jackson's movies stem from his inability to break away from his horror film background and his compulsion to try to cram as much drama into scenes as possible to the point they become unbelievable and almost laughable (several instances of this with the Nazgul).

It could have been worse though, as I am now picturing Nazgul riding fell beasts, wielding Flymos.

[Lily Bombadil]

Lalwende, I am completely sharing your sentiments. I hate what they did with Faramir, changing his valiant personality! If they hadn't dragged out Helm's Deep, dragged Haldir into it (and killed him, no less!) etc, they could have put the fall of Boromir in its correct place: the beginning of TTT, and they could have put Shelob's Lair in its intended place: the end of TTT. And yes, I was quite miffed that they replaced Glorfindel with Arwen. Eowyn was the only heroine Tolkien intended, I believe, and they ought to have left it that way! Besides, I wanted to see how Glorfindel would be portrayed. And the sad news is, the animated LotR did no better: they replaced him with Legolas! LEGOLAS!!!!!!!!! (funny, because my best friend and I were watching it, and right as the elf who should've been Glorfindel approached, I said, "Wouldn't it suck if they replaced him with Legolas?" And what did they do????) Fools... *walks off muttering*

[Kitanna]

It has always irked me how Eowyn was portrayed in TTT. There's just something about her that I can't get my finger on...though I do enjoy when she rides off to battle. For she was my favorite character in the books, but not so in the movie.

It is understood that certain things must be changed or else the popcorn eating masses would not understand, but somethings are just disgraceful. It has been said many times before so I won't elaborate, but Gimli and Faramir...I don't think I need to say more.

And Boromir summed up Aragorn's beheading of the Mouth of Sauron well. That is no way for a future king to act.

The final thing that must be said is Saruman's death. I wish that it had just been left out of EE. I think Christopher Lee is a wonderful actor and on top of it a great fan of Tolkien and to ruin Saruman's death like that is just...ugh. That of all things has left the worst taste in my mouth. I can barely watch the scene in EE without cringing and mumbling unutterable things.

[The Only Real Estel]

Posted by Essex:

we've been through this bashing (and yes it is bashing) before, so I won't reply to the points raised above as this has been done many times before

I disagree. I think you can have an intelligent discussion about problems you have with the films without turning it into a rage against the screenwriters. Just because the triology was great on the whole (IMO) doesn't mean we have to pretend that there was nothing wrong with it.

But you are right that we don't need to reargue past points that have been made...at least not at any great lengths.

Lalwende's post brought up the constent jokes at Gimli's expense in TTT-those got old fast but I suppose I can get over them. *shrugs*

edit: Lyta brought up Gandalf's handling of Denethor. I did not at all like Denethor's death, nor the role that Gandalf & Shadowfax played in it.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I was also passingly annoyed by that inane speech by Gandalf about how "death comes to us all." Well, in Middle-earth, no it doesn't. Gandalf himself only came to it by happenstance not biological imperative.

Also the "far green land under a swift sunrise" line, while appropriate for Frodo, is NOT appropriate for Pippin, who, poor hobbit, will never see it, and so Gandalf's explanation only points up how alien he is and how far removed from Pippin he really is. It is as if Gandalf is relating a dream that's only purpose is to distract Pippin or comfort him with a "story," as it seems cruel to promise something to him that he will never see.

While I'm on the subject of Gandalf...I think the necessarily rough handling of Denethor's character on Gandalf's part is a direct result of the changes made to Denethor. The 'Villain of Minas Tirith' is much less effective, less noble and merits almost the treatment Gandalf gave him. But this change cheapens the role of Gandalf. It makes him seem brusque and uncaring, and he is definitely NOT! I think Gandalf the White was unfairly destabilized by the alterations made to other characters, and I realize his subtleties can't be fully explored, but he certainly seemed out of character in some ways. Perhaps this is one reason no one seems to like Gandalf the White as much as they liked Gandalf the Grey. Certainly Gandalf's active role in the passing of Lord Denethor rankled!

Not to unfairly beef on Mithrandir, there are many things I disliked and many things I liked, but this one came to mind first.

Cheers!
Lyta

[Boromir88]

Essex, to add to some of Estel's points, not all complaints against the movies are against the changes from the books. There are many changes Jackson makes to the books, and I try hard not to focus on these, because I think as movies they need to be treated like any other movies. Critiqued, but from the film perspective, not because it's different from the books. But, since Jackson did base these off the Tolkien's books it's perfectly reasonable to compare and contrast, just like any other movie based off of a book.

For example, my main argument in the Mouth of Sauron scene was not that it differenciated from the book, but Jackson rejected the very Rules of War that other directors show clear understanding of. Messengers can't be killed, and the Mouth of Sauron could have been easily defeated, and shown in total shame by not having to cut off his head.

When you see a movie, or read a book you must ask yourself (for you to consider it a good story or not) does it show unity and continuity? Does it hold togeter and does it make sense? Is it believable? Not believable as in "there's Dragons and fireballs, this can't happen in real life, it's not believable." But believable, within the movies/books context, if it's a fantasy story you expect to see such things as dragons and basically anything is possible. There are cases when Jackson's movie just doesn't hold together and doesn't make sense within the movie.

For example, Gimli in TTT says "3 days on night pursuit..." when chasing the Uruk-hai. So from Amon Hen, to the plains of Rohan they've been on the hunt for 3 nights. So how does Haldir's Elves make it from Lorien to Helm's Deep in one night? (For what it seems, unless an explanation can be shown to prove otherwise).

Another one, Aragorn acts extremely out of character in the movies. He spares Grima, he stops Theoden from killing Grima, but then he goes and does the immoral thing of chopping off a messengers head. A complete 360, now Aragorn's character doesn't hold together. He spares Saruman's messenger Grima, who nearly caused the destruction and extinction of Rohan, but he kills Sauron's messenger who may or may not have had terms to deliver we don't know, and who had a message to give.

I think anytime you make, write, create (or even type out a reply on a forum) it's open to compliments, but not only compliments you must also accept it's going to be critiqued and criticized. Then I think you take the compliments and the criticisms into account to change and make better the next piece of literature you do. Anytime you make or write something, you're opening for an audience to see which means you're opening it up to criticism, not just compliments.

[alatar]

First, I am surprised that Essex and I haven't been banned from such threads like this one ad vitam...

That being said, I would have to agree with and echo many of the posters thoughts in regards to what PJ didn't get right. My #1 peeve, as noted ad nauseum, is the mishandling of Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch-King. And, letting all of the comparisons between Tolkien's and PJ's Middle Earth aside, I would list the following items that irk me (abbreviated list, to be sure):

• Dueling Nazgul - are these just people with swords dressed in black? Too clumsy to catch hobbits, too easy to scare with fire and swords - why exactly I am afraid?

• Arwen at the Fords - if she wasn't there, the dreaded "She-elf" line couldn't have been uttered. "She-Elf, drop the He-Hobbit from the It-Horse." "Come and claim him, He-Wraiths!" Never realized that wraithdom made one overtly concerned with pronouns and gender identification...no wonder everyone feared the Nazgul.

• Gandalf's lesser role as leader of the Fellowship. "Let's take the Ring to the Fords as all of this snow made me forget about being imprisoned by Saruman."

• The "Stairs of Khazad-dûm" - could we have used our FOTR running time better? More Lothlorien please.

• Most of TTT - Cliff-diving Aragorn, running dwarf running gags, eloping Eomer, Gandalf a rider for the Pony Express: white wizard division ("When your call to war absolutely, positively has to get there before the movie ends"), dreams of Arwen, etc.

• Of special TTT note: Just how many of elves does it take to kill a few Uruks? See
  here and here for more frothed-mouth rantings.

• More TTT: Ents. It takes them (seemingly) hours to say hello yet can change their minds and go to war with Saruman immediately after seeing some felled trees. Pretty inconsistent, and not very good shepherds either.

• Saruman's fireball was just great. Would have been handy against Ents if they ever made up their minds to attack.

• Legolas' concern for body count. This is my only explanation for 'capping' Grima. Hmmm...maybe that explains Aragorn's execution of MoS. "One! I'm already in the lead!"

• Denethor the slob. If only the orcs had brought a spikey wheel with them as they entered the Minas Tirith, then the Steward could have died a fitting death.

• Theoden's bonfire. It seemed a bit confusing that Theoden needed to see a fire on a hill to go to war. Couldn't Aragorn saved some movie minutes by having the Dynamic Duo go off and light the one that he sees? This would have saved us from watching Indiana "Pippin" Jones being watched by Gandalf the Fireless ("Sure wish they would have taught us that fireball spell back in Istari school.")

• The Pirates of PJ-anze. This menacing bunch gave us more Dwarf and Elf show. Cheers on that. And "I produce, therefore I can act."

• Gothmog.

• What's a woman gotta do to get some recognition? "So you're Eowyn, Stewardess of Ithilien. It says here that you slew countless orcs during the Siege, took down some mumakil, single-handedly beheaded the Fell Beast and destroyed the biggest corporal non-spotlight baddy of the trilogy known as the Witch-King...okay, so what did you do after that?" She killed the WK, yet we had to have more, and so she flees from Gothmog. Is the word enough in PJ's vocabulary?

• Osgiliath amphibious invasion. I wasn't sure if PJ were going for a reenactment of the landing at Normandy (6-June-1944) or the crossing of the Delaware (25-Dec-1776).

• The Green Ghost Tide.

My fingers are running out of strength...

• The Spotlight of Sauron.

• CSI: Cirith Ungol. Watch tonight as everyone's favorite sidekick Sam finally figures out 'who done it' after examining lembas crumbs.

I'll quit now.

Anyway, before I get flamed, note that I appreciate PJ's work as it's better than anything I or anyone else has done. Without his movies I would still be wishing that someone somewhere would get the rights and make the movies - I'm too lazy. Great scenery, props, actors, effects, soundtrack, etc.