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#1 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Whichever way we read, if we see this message or do not, then it can't be denied that the landscape itself plays an enormous role in our appreciation of Tolkien's work. There are several writers who do make incredible use of landscape, almost to the point of characterising it, including Thomas Hardy and Emily Bronte; while they use landscape as a setting for stories and to echo characters (see how the landscape changes with the changing fortunes of Tess Durbeyfield), Tolkien made the change in the landscape part of the story in itself. This is why I like the idea that the Secret Fire lives at the heart of the earth. It is as though this is the force around which life in this secondary world revolves, it drives it, and it also creates consequences. In our world it seems to be the skies which drive nature, whereas in Tokien it is the Earth itself.
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#2 | ||||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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Good catch, Davem
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Which brings to mind Tolkien's description of the healing process in this chapter for both the Black Shadow and Faramir's fever, and how much it seems to depend on the touch of Aragorn's hand. Human touch is surprisingly powerful. It can help ease both physical and emotional pain (both of which are affecting Faramir, Eowyn and Merry). Although I enjoyed the comments of Lalwende regarding the Elessar, I think the idea was that Aragorn himself was the main source of healing, not the stone, or the athelas. Ioreth says "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer." And see how much Aragorn's healing involves the sense of touch. Quote:
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![]() He uses the athelas as a medicinal plant, probably because having grown up in Rivendell in the care of Elrond, a master of lore and healing, he would have learned the properties of the plant, whereas in the rest of Middle Earth, where the old knowledge had faded away, it was only preserved in the equivalent of nursery rhymes (the Chief Warden's piece of 'doggerel' always reminds me of 'Ring Around the Rosy' and its association with the Black Death). In the eyes of Ioreth, and even the Chief Warden, seeing this "weed" used to heal such severe illness might have seemed like an amazing demonstration of supernatural power on Aragorn's part.
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Not all those who wander are lost . . . because some of us know how to read a map. |
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#3 | ||
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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Hmm. I formerly thought that each individual smelled in the athelas what was appropriate for them, but then again the others smelled it too. And how could that be? (And one wonders if all would share Ioreth’s thought that it was a ‘wholesome’ fragrance.) It seemly likely that Aragorn must have been some special skill such as directing a specific scent, or else kingsfoil would have been used for more than headaches in Gondor! And I suspect that that specific talent was considerably less common than finding a store of athelas in the city!
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Another question that I’d like to place before this group concerns Aragorn’s removal of the Star of the North-kingdom from his banner as he set up his camp outside the gate. What does this mean to you? Is it simply an outward sign that Aragorn did not wish to challenge Denethor? |
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Dead Serious
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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How can this be? Athelas appeals to the same place in each patient's mind--the olfactory nerves and--I think this is correct--the olfactory bulb--but what it recalls them to is unique for each person. How of course everyone else in the room is swept up in each unique scent is a bit of a mystery. Presumably only Aragorn himself would experience the different aromas. And interestingly, the text does not tell us that others in Merry's rooms have the same sensory experience: the passage is rendered in without their reactions. We have only the omniscient narration. Perhaps athelas functions like the letters in the Chinese alphabet. The letter is consistent across all the different Chinese dialects, but the word which the symbol represents is different. Such polysemy is particularly important in medieval times, where symbols were widely used in illiterate cultures. Each culture would 'translate' the symbol according to its own system of meaning.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#6 | |||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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But one thing stands out for me as not fitting into a cultural pattern and that is one of the effects associated with Eowyn: Quote:
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#7 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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Grief indeed is part of Faramir's wound, yet Aragorn does link Faramir's illness with the Shadow: Quote:
![]() Interesting that you think the words associated with Faramir would suit Eowyn better, as I absolutely have no sense that they would at all, quite otherwise in fact, for it is the Gondorians who are awash in nostalgic memory somewhat akin to that of the elves. The first sunrise, after all, was in the West, over Aman and Numenor, no? And so, in Eowyn and Faramir, the two 'strains' of the Hildor, reunite. But then again, "Dome of Stars" is a name for Osgiliath, where Faramir was wounded. Do we have Aragorn actually acting as a matchmaker here? Still and all, what are dreams made on? Desire for what would be or what was or a little of both? ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#8 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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It would seem that the Nazgul effect a loss of perspective, and their victims despair no longer being grounded in a reality, but lost in their own darkened distorted thoughts. (Sounds a lot like major Depression, doesn't it?) This makes me question whether the scent each patient smelled was not what they yearned for, but rather what might comfort them, whether real or imagined. Perhaps then Aragorn guessed that these were the scents best suited for each. Being knowledgeable in history and well traveled it would seem possible, and I think I might be reiterating the thoughts expressed earlier.
Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar. ![]() One more thought about Frodo’s illness, if you will indulge me, I am wondering if Aragorn might have sought Elrond out to learn more of healing such maladies as Frodo recovered in Rivendell. If that were the case the hobbit might possibly have helped the king in a round about way, though at the time it was harrowing. |
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