The Root of all Evil.

[drigel]

I am going to lift some quotes here. They are from a Martinez essay (Magic by Melkor, No Returns Accepted), where he used quotes from "Notes on motives in the Silmarillion":

"...Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)"

and

It is quite possible, of course, that certain 'elements' of conditions of matter had attracted Morgoth's special attention (mainly, unless in the remote past, for reasons of his own plans). For example, all gold (in Middle-earth) seems to have had a specially 'evil' trend -- but not silver. Water is represented as being almost entirely free of Morgoth. (This, of course, does not mean that any particular sea, stream, river, well, or even vessel of water could not be poisoned or defiled -- as all things could.)

I am also leaning toward Martinez theory concerning mithril. Possibly what made mithril so special was the absence of the Morgoth element.

[Gurthang]

Originally posted by drigel

So could it then be said that Morgoth's will was also in the Ring? If Morgoth was ever present in the element of Gold, he must have had some power in the Ring also. Which brings in an interesting proposition: Would the Ring have been as strong/potent/powerful if it had been made of, oh say, Mithril? I chance that it would not have been.

But why then did Morgoth choose Gold? Of all the choices to pick as an element to corrupt, why that? Surely he could not have known the power it would have over the Three Kindreds, especially Dwarves and Men? Or perhaps he simply wanted to mar(sp) the fairest thing that Arda had to offer.

In any case, I think it is interesting that we are talking about gold being the source of evil, yet that 'evil' within gold comes from Morgoth, as drigel's post states above. Gold in and of itself is not evil, but it is that power of lust that Morgoth placed into it and around it. So that those who see it long for it and are often corrupted by it. So then the 'Root of all Evil' then goes back simply to Morgoth. Not a very deep root, now is it.

I would say that Gold is somewhat like the trunk and branches of that tree. Morgoth is the root, creates malice and sends it through gold up to his leaves and fruit. Now there are probably a great number of things that could be put in place as the trunk, but gold does fit well.

[drigel]

It's an interesting subject.

Would the Ring have been as strong/potent/powerful if it had been made of, oh say, Mithril?

I would say (if one subscribes to the idea that mithril is M-free) that mabye a ring of power would be less apt for evil purposes, more potent for benevolent use..?..?

Martinez' was also proposing in his essay the idea that that the reason dragons hoarded gold (and gems etc.) was that they sustained themselves on it. I suppose the thought being that laying on a big pile of gold, a dragon could absorb some of the M element..?..?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Gold itself isn't evil, but those who desire it to get filthy rich are. (B88)

On the thing with Galadriel's "golden hair" . . . (B88)

These two quotes came to me together, and it hit me. Would Fëanor's future greedy love for the Silmarilli stem from his desire to get the gold (and silver) light--from Galadriel's hair, for example?

I remember that from his speech before the Noldor of the Fish--I mean Túna--he said something like, "When we recover the Silmarils from Morgoth, we alone shall be masters of the unsullied light." What, is light a marketable commodity now, too? What's with this greed for light?

[Eledhewin Ilanora]

well ok..the root of evil in LOTR is gold? You mean gold ring eg.?

Now arent that just like scraping the surface? I mean are Sauron & Saruman and others craving for the gold? How bout the uruks & orcs?

Lets talk about Gollum? Do you think he was tuned into an evil being for gold?

Nope.i believe the root of evil in LOTR is the greed for power. Power to control, power to manipulate, Power to destroy, Power to be invincible and untouchable etc etc.

Power!!!!!!

[Ainaserkewen]

Evil for me has always been defined by two words: Vanity and corruption.

Gold, and power for that matter, would play towards vanity and be corruptive I suppose.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Eledhewin Ilanora

Lets talk about Gollum? Do you think he was tuned into an evil being for gold?
Nope.i believe the root of evil in LOTR is the greed for power. Power to control, power to manipulate, Power to destroy, Power to be invincible and untouchable etc etc.Power!!!!!!

I have to differ a little about Gollum. It was the gold that caused him to murder Deagol in the first place but it was not power. Even he didn't try to usurp his grandmother when he had the ring.

Originally Posted by Nuranar

The key operator there is that the money itself isn't the problem. It's the untoward lust for it that leads to evil.

It all leads back to lust (of whatever). Smeagol lusted the ring itself and murdered then he lusted secrets to use against his own kin that led to his outcast.
Even 'power' is not listed in the 7 deadliest sins because 'power' can be used for good, but 'lust' is listed becausae anything we desire to obsession is never good.

[Nuranar]

Power and money (or gold) aren't synonymous - but it's remarkable how closely related they are. We all want more money than we've got; if you had it, what would you do with it? Buy things. Keep increasing the money and you can buy more and bigger things, and eventually you can buy anything. If that's all money can do, why are there so many multi-millionaires? With great money comes great power. And power leads to more money. They support each other.

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

Even 'power' is not listed in the 7 deadliest sins because 'power' can be used for good, but 'lust' is listed becausae anything we desire to obsession is never good.

Very good point. Power itself, like money, is no evil; after all, try to abolish power and you abolish government. (Some might argue that's not a bad thing - but anarchy puts power in the hands of the rich, forceful, and/or physically strong. Power doesn't just disappear.) It's the abuse of power that's the problem: tyranny, oppression, injustice, cruelty. And the love of money can be a root of that particular evil.

Are there any instances of a rise to power taking place without money and not resulting in wealth?