Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[Mister Underhill]

My point was about Tolkien using "shadow" as a technique rather than as literal shadow stuff, but there's a usage contradicting the no-wingers in the same passage: "But at that moment there came a sound like mingled song and laughter." The sound is mingled song and laughter.

But I'm gonna have to take a break from the Balrog wars -- I've been over all this more times than I care to think about.

[Folwren]

Originally posted by Mister Underhill:
My point was about Tolkien using "shadow" as a technique rather than as literal shadow stuff, but there's a usage contradicting the no-wingers in the same passage: "But at that moment there came a sound like mingled song and laughter." The sound is mingled song and laughter.

Totally different context there, ol' chap. Try again.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well firstly Mr.Balrog in khazadum flying over gandalf would be bad because gandalf is very mighty the balrog isn't stupid he knew he would have to go through him not over him...and once they were falling a balrog can't just flip over and flap its wings.it was falling with gandalf on its stomach meaning his wings were down....maybe you've seen a bird fly upside down but I haven't. Not to mention it's been in moria for who knows how long not much flying to be done in a mine. the wings would have lost the muscle to fly and as I said in a earlier post the wings were more likely meant for gliding not flapping if you get my meaning

[Kuruharan]

Well firstly Mr.Balrog in khazadum flying over gandalf would be bad because gandalf is very mighty the balrog isn't stupid he knew he would have to go through him not over him

This is hardly self-evident. A lot of times the advantage in a fight goes to those who are fighting from above.

[Morsul the Dark]

True but the rest of the argument seems to have you(as you would put it) humming and hawing

[Kuruharan]

The rest of your argument has already been so badly beaten to death in so many places so many times that I did not think I had to bother with it.

However, if you insist...

and once they were falling a balrog can't just flip over and flap its wings.

It's been my observation that falling things can often spin around in their descent.

it was falling with gandalf on its stomach meaning his wings were down

I seriously doubt that Gandalf was sticking to one spot on the Balrog if he could possibly help it. If there is one thing that is obvious it is that they were fighting as they were going down. Movement is a critical factor in fighting. Gandalf staying in one spot makes it much easier for the Balrog to whack away at him. Gandalf moving about would have made it much more likely that the pair of them would have been spinning about like crazy, giving the Balrog plenty of opportunity to get upright and use its wings (which it does not have).

Not to mention it's been in moria for who knows how long not much flying to be done in a mine. the wings would have lost the muscle to fly and as I said in a earlier post the wings were more likely meant for gliding not flapping if you get my meaning

The rest of this gliding business and muscle atrophy are not even approaching convincing (or even relevant) arguments for those of us who think it solves all the problems in the text to believe that Balrogs don't have wings. They just sound like more non-textual rationalizations and assumptions that pro-wingers have to build around their arguments to sustain their deeply cherished belief.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

. They just sound like more non-textual rationalizations and assumptions that pro-wingers have to build around their arguments to sustain their deeply cherished belief.

and talking about how big they would be folding isn't aa rationalization a bit hypacritical that...but i don't respond to fight you but rather to aid you

it say Like wings...so later when it says the wings it most likely(when I thought about it) was just referring to the smoke

I mean this...We have already discussed the fact that the smoke is like wing later on it would be too difficult (well more annoying) to say the wing like smoke reached to each side of the chamber its easier to refer to the smoke as wings since that is what it was described as before

I will still picture balrogs with wings because it's more romnatic but textually it seems they don't