The Root of all Evil.

[Boromir88]

Good thoughts on gold, it was the basing for money. For our paper to be worth something we need gold to back it. So, I guess the saying should be "Gold is the root of all evil," because without it, the paper money would be worthless.

Also, there's the stories of the conquistadores and other ancient stories of people who are so driven by gold they spend their life and dedication ever searching for it in hopes of finding it. And in many cases killed over gold. So, I think gold has a historical background to it to explain why Tolkien makes the connection.

I'm still not sold on silver. I don't know what is it about silver that makes it purer than gold, and so...ungold?

[alatar]

Are we speaking strictly about the metal or does the 'color' count? If so, I would point out the obvious "Golden Wood" and of course the "Lady" therein, whose hair was like gold. Also, is not the light of Laurelin golden? These would offset the negative observations.

If we are restricted to the metal, then I wonder if it is the value of the metal (gold traditionally valued more than silver) that is the issue. Surely mithril ("true silver") is much more prized than even gold, but I thnk that it is so rare and 'magical' that it is only used sparingly in the story, and so maybe not given as much thought. Then again, mithril was the downfall of the Dwarves at Khazad-dûm yet also was the saviour of Frodo. Hmmm...

Will give it more thought.

[Nuranar]

Aha, one of the most mis-quoted sentences in the entire Bible!

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil." (I Timothy 6:10a, NIV, emphasis mine. Anyone want to share another translation? My KJV has hidden itself...)

The key operator there is that the money itself isn't the problem. It's the untoward lust for it that leads to evil.

If something is the root of all kinds of evil, does that make it evil itself? As alatar observed, if "gold" in all forms is the root of evil for Tolkien, what does that say about the Galadriel and the Golden Wood? And what of Laurelin? If I made a list of things unmarred and without evil, the Golden Tree of Valinor would be pretty high up there.

~ Nuranar, who will be late for class unless she cuts her eloquence short

[Kath]

Nuranar you beat me to it!

I completely agree that it is the lust for gold/money and not gold/money itself that causes the problems. The desire to have more than you have is the same whether in the real world with money or in Middle-Earth with the Ring. Everyone who has gone after the Ring has wanted it because it will bring them more than they have, whether that be power or strength.

[Boromir88]

Nuranar, thanks for pointing out the misquoted quote, I think that does hold significance. Gold itself isn't evil, but those who desire it to get filthy rich are.

On the thing with Galadriel's "golden hair," and the "golden wood," the quote I gave Tolkien specifically refers it to the metal. As he compares it with silver, and comes out and says gold has an evil trend, silver doesn't. I think it's the actual metal, where the things and places that have a golden color can't be applied.

[Mithalwen]

Well others have beaten me to correcting the quotation but I would point out Galadriel's blessing of Gimli - that his hand should flow with gold but over him gold should have no dominion? Here I think gold is used to mean treasure in general.

I don't think Tolkien sets silver above gold in that way. They are generally balanced - LAurelin and Telperion (and their latterday representetives the white tree found by Aragorn and the Party Tree), Minas Anor is balanced by Minas Ithil and Galadriel's gold with Celeborn's silver - I think gold has the upper hand in those cases!! It is taste - whether you prefer day or night - and the elves at least loved the stars most (literally and figuratively jewels in the night sky ). The most notable conflicts were over jewels (Silmarils, Arkenstone..) .

the One RIng being a notable exception - it's seeming ordinariness, making it seem so sinister. Unheated it is basically a wedding band (and how wierd is it hearing of people using replicas as such!) such as is used today and certainly by the elves then.

Other points that may be relevant:
Thranduil's fondness for treasure was noted and it was silver and pearls that he loved best if I recall rightly?

Elvish distinguishes between Gold as a metal and as a colour - malta and laure...

[drigel]

I am going to lift some quotes here. They are from a Martinez essay (Magic by Melkor, No Returns Accepted), where he used quotes from "Notes on motives in the Silmarillion":

"...Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)"

and

It is quite possible, of course, that certain 'elements' of conditions of matter had attracted Morgoth's special attention (mainly, unless in the remote past, for reasons of his own plans). For example, all gold (in Middle-earth) seems to have had a specially 'evil' trend -- but not silver. Water is represented as being almost entirely free of Morgoth. (This, of course, does not mean that any particular sea, stream, river, well, or even vessel of water could not be poisoned or defiled -- as all things could.)

I am also leaning toward Martinez theory concerning mithril. Possibly what made mithril so special was the absence of the Morgoth element.

[Gurthang]

Originally posted by drigel

So could it then be said that Morgoth's will was also in the Ring? If Morgoth was ever present in the element of Gold, he must have had some power in the Ring also. Which brings in an interesting proposition: Would the Ring have been as strong/potent/powerful if it had been made of, oh say, Mithril? I chance that it would not have been.

But why then did Morgoth choose Gold? Of all the choices to pick as an element to corrupt, why that? Surely he could not have known the power it would have over the Three Kindreds, especially Dwarves and Men? Or perhaps he simply wanted to mar(sp) the fairest thing that Arda had to offer.

In any case, I think it is interesting that we are talking about gold being the source of evil, yet that 'evil' within gold comes from Morgoth, as drigel's post states above. Gold in and of itself is not evil, but it is that power of lust that Morgoth placed into it and around it. So that those who see it long for it and are often corrupted by it. So then the 'Root of all Evil' then goes back simply to Morgoth. Not a very deep root, now is it.

I would say that Gold is somewhat like the trunk and branches of that tree. Morgoth is the root, creates malice and sends it through gold up to his leaves and fruit. Now there are probably a great number of things that could be put in place as the trunk, but gold does fit well.