Who would have fallen?

[The Saucepan Man]

I linked to my post on that thread because it sets out my reasoning for my choice, which I stand by. I couldn't be bothered to type it all out again ...

[alatar]

Think that an choice was left out. How about none of the above?

We read that Boromir is set on taking and using the Ring in Rivendell. His desire for the Ring doesn't start at Parth Galen; it just comes to a head there as he ran out of maybe tomorrow's for which to wait for some chance to get it. And yet even he did not react with glee (if memory serves ) when Frodo got speared in the Chamber of Mazarbul - "haha! And now there be Eight..."

One might assume that the Ring's proximity to Mordor may also have something to do with Boromir's fall, but I would say that Boromir fell due mostly to the pen of Master Tolkien than from any influence of the Ring. His character is doomed to try, and yet even Boromir, shown to be muttering to himself during the Anduin boat ride, still does not take the Ring in the end. He was penned to be the most flawed of the Nine Walkers, and yet even he redeems himself and dies a hero's death. The Fellowship is made up of nine "best of the best." Tolkien's first string came to dance, and they weren't going to disappoint.

Gollum walks alongside Frodo and Sam around and almost into Mordor, yet his desire grows no stronger. His desire exceeds that of Boromir's, and though they are of different natures (hobbit and man), Gollum is able to abstain from taking the Ring for most of the journey. If he were able to resist even when the Ring were puportedly more powerful, than what does this say for Boromir and the other? Could they also have resisted?

Anyway, if Boromir were the best candidate for being the Ring-Taker, then who would be next to fall?

• Gandalf? - He'd already rejected a freely proffered Ring.

• Aragorn? - He's the ultimate human hero, doomed to be King or to die trying. His desire to be the Second Isuldur ("by one all were cursed, and by one all would be redeemed") coupled with his love for Arwen would shield him from the lures of the Ring. He needn't have waited so long if he did indeed want the Ring, and could have taken it in Bree, at Weathertop or in the long trip to Rivendell ("Frodo's going to die anyway, and I'm the obvious heir of this 'loom..."), but Aragorn didn't take it. His past actions can be used to predict his future behavior.

• Legolas? - As an elf, he would be wise enough to know the dangers of the Ring. He never comes off as does Galadriel, who has an agenda for Middle Earth. Legolas to me simply would not want it.

• Gimli? - I think that Gimli, like the Elf, would know the dangers of the Ring. His anti-domination dwarvish nature may also shield him somewhat from the temptation, and his sense of honor and duty (demonstrated when he proposed to take an oath as the Fellowship leaves Rivendell) would help.

• Sam? - Sam is tempted by the Ring, yet his 'Hobbit sense' and thereafter his love for Frodo lets him resist the Ring's temptation.

• Merry and Pippin? Arguing that these two would not try to take the take the Ring is more difficult. Surely like Sam they have some hobbit sense (maybe?) and they too have a love for Frodo. I would throw in that hopefully the Ring would reject these two if any other choices were available - look what happened to Saruman, the Uruks, the Witch-King and even Sauron when at least one of the two were present...My concern is that they would try to get it to use it unwittingly, not to gain power and dominion but just to try it. And Pippin fell to the palantir's call, and so he might try for the Ring. One would have to set his temptation against his love for Frodo and the betrayal of his kin - it's one thing to steal a palantir from a wizard but another thing to try for your kin's stuff.

I assume that this thread is in regards to the Fellowship, or I would nominate my choice ++Denethor.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by alatar

Think that an choice was left out. How about none of the above?

Ermmm...as one of the above includes Frodo I'm not sure that such a choice makes much sense....

And to add my clarification to Saucy's I would just point out that this poll is in fact in the Books forum and not Movies.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Maybe Pippin seeing as he fell to the lure of the palantir... I do not see Merry succumbing to it. Maybe it's because of his close kinship with Frodo and out of love, he would not even dare to try it. Sam is Frodo's "servant" and Sam loves Frodo deeply, so that's why he would not.

How come Pippin always seems to be regarded as having less love for Frodo than Merry? Is it his "lighter" nature?

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Aragorn had a lot of chances to take the Ring and he never did so

Boromir had a lot of chances to do so too, but never did until he did, if you take my meaning. We have to assume that the next person to "succumb" does so after Boromir's attempt. For the reasons stated in the link I provided above, I believe that it would have been Aragorn. At the outset, the distance from Mordor and his strength of character mean that he is in no danger. But had they all stayed with Frodo on the journey to Mordor, I believe that, of them all, he would have been in the most danger.

Then again, I believe that given sufficent time and exposure, they would all have succumbed to the lure of the Ring - with the exception, perhaps, of Gandalf.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

How come Pippin always seems to be regarded as having less love for Frodo than Merry? Is it his "lighter" nature?

I never said he had less love for Frodo. He does have lots of love for him seeing as they are also closely related. I said that because Pippin was the one who touched the palantir is the one who is most curious and if the Ring just magicly appeared in his hand, he would probably try it out to see what it does.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Then again, I believe that given sufficent time and exposure, they would all have succumbed to the lure of the Ring - with the exception, perhaps, of Gandalf

I would have to agree with you on this one. The lure would have been to strong for them to resist for long, with the exception of Gandalf of course.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

Ermmm...as one of the above includes Frodo I'm not sure that such a choice makes much sense....

Oh, so now there is the requirement to make sense?!? Hmmm..I may have a little trouble with that, but then again I guess that there's a first time for everything.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Boromir had a lot of chances to do so too, but never did until he did, if you take my meaning.

But not as many as did Aragorn. Strider was alone in the woods with fours hobbits unchaperoned. When Boromir enters the story, the Ring Bearer is surrounded by some pretty big body guards, and so he might have been put off by them. And what is hinted at by the temptations of Galadriel? Did she see Ring lust in Aragorn's eyes? My point is that Boromir and Aragorn are different.

But had they all stayed with Frodo on the journey to Mordor, I believe that, of them all, he would have been in the most danger...Then again, I believe that given sufficent time and exposure, they would all have succumbed to the lure of the Ring - with the exception, perhaps, of Gandalf.

It's possible that Aragorn would have succumbed, yet I see that happening with no more or less probability than any of the others (with the exception of the witless Pippin thing). I know that the Ring tempts and tempted, yet when I read the text I never got the sense that any of the others felt as Boromir did, meaning that I was told of the Ring's irresistable siren song, but never heard it in any of the characters' ears.

And, to quote Sauron, Aragorn's fall may have happened when the world were in dire straights (that text about a time of strife when a new Ring Lord would appear and put down all of the others or something), yet when would this strife have occurred? If Aragorn accompanied Frodo, when would possessing the Ring appear to be the better deal? Would Aragorn need it to get through the Black Gate? Or if they followed Gollum's path to Cirith Ungol, would Aragorn need to take the Ring to put down the Witch-King? If he were in Minas Tirith when the siege started, then maybe he would have felt more like Denethor, but again I just don't see it.

Boromir was Tolkien's fall guy.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by alatar

Oh, so now there is the requirement to make sense?!? Hmmm..I may have a little trouble with that, but then again I guess that there's a first time for everything.

I know, why do things have to make sense?? Oh well. Guess I will just have to restrain myself then.

Originally Posted by alatar

But not as many as did Aragorn. Strider was alone in the woods with fours hobbits unchaperoned. When Boromir enters the story, the Ring Bearer is surrounded by some pretty big body guards, and so he might have been put off by them. And what is hinted at by the temptations of Galadriel? Did she see Ring lust in Aragorn's eyes? My point is that Boromir and Aragorn are different.

I agree with you on this alatar. Aragorn was with the four alone a lot after they left Bree. When Boromir comes, he would have to face a man who claims to be king of Gondor, a Dwarf with a bad temper, an elf with a good shot on a bow, and a very powerful wizard. Not to mention Frodo's kin and "servant". He would have had a really hard time getting it from him. Aragorn and Boromir are VERY different from each other.

[Folwren]

I haven't voted yet, but I have to say that I doubt it is Peregrin. I take the question to mean that if the Fellowship never broke and Frodo still carried the Ring, who would fall next, not 'if it fell into someone's hands, who would succumb to it?' If that were the case, well...I think if anyone had it long enough they would succumb.

Anyhow, taking the question as I percieve it (i.e. Frodo carries it, the others see it now and again and it's always near them, who falls next?), I don't think Pippin would even care. Several here have said that because of his witlessness and his proneness to curiosity he would have fallen, but I say because of his lack of knowledge and lack of contact with the thing, he would hardly be aware of its presence. He sees no application for it (like Boromir saw it as a weapon, or other people might see it as power) and he can only see the misery it brings. Like a child, he'll do his utmost to avoid that.

Until later, then, when I figure out who I think WOULD be next...

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Several here have said that because of his witlessness and his proneness to curiosity he would have fallen, but I say because of his lack of knowledge and lack of contact with the thing, he would hardly be aware of its presence. He sees no application for it (like Boromir saw it as a weapon, or other people might see it as power) and he can only see the misery it brings. Like a child, he'll do his utmost to avoid that.

Not to be impolite, but do you have children? I have one such child that repeatedly tries to harm herself - not that she's stupid or not abled and as normal as one of my children can be - it's just that she continually attempts things that are outside of her abilities. We are on constant 'suicide watch.' Finding a screwdriver, she would immediately go to the nearest electrical outlet...

My other two somehow have more sense.

That and that she is overly curious. How many coins do you think one can fit inside the box of a computer (when it's turned on)? She means no harm, it's just that she found the coins near the computer, saw the slots, and must have figured that one belonged inside the other. I am continually amazed by (and tired from) her actions.

I see Pippin in the same light. He would not mean harm, nor would he seek power. I would agree that he might even be deaf to the call. My assertion has been that if the Ring were in reach, Pippin would try it on just to see what would happen/what it would do. I would posit the same would happen if he saw Frodo's star glass, Gandalf's staff, Boromir's horn, etc.

He just can't his hands in his pocketses.

[Glirdan]

I am sorry for all those Aragorn lovers out there, but I will have to say Aragorn. These are the reasons why:

1) Gandalf knew what kind of power he would have if he held the Ring and he didn't like that thought.

2) It took Frodo a long time to actually succumb to the power of th Ring. It happened only after he was captured at Cirith Ungol. Therfore, even if the other Hobbits are younger than he, we must assume that Hobbits (as said in the book numerous times) have more strength in them then it appears and so it would have taken a while for the other Hobbits to succumb to the power of the Ring.

3) The race of Men is weak, right? And in the movie, we see that when Frodo offered the Ring to Aragorn, the desire to take it came upon him. So, instead of letting Frodo keep the Ring, Aragorn could have taken it.

I could not find an excuse for Legolas and Gimli, but I have a feeling that if Legolas was offered it, he still would not have taken it. As for Gimli, I can not think of anything for a reason whe he would not have taken it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Legolas and here is why

Sam merry pippin all know about the ring all refuse to take but rather help frodo in his quest

Aragorn-he may be a man but a man smiled upon by Eru to fulfill a prophecy of becoming king(also avoids ring as seen in Bree)

Gandalf already refused the ringthat leaves gimli and legolas

well let's see, Gimli has no use for the ring i understand dwarves care little for such things i mean the dwarf rings were destroyed and taken and they just do not care

legolas....as gimli said in the film"No one trust an elf" hes too sketchy if you ask me Im not fond of him book or movie and think nay know that he would have succumbed to rings power for being and immortal elf he would consider himself mighty enough to wield it falling to his own pride(may add especially if he is captain obvious leggy)

[The Saucepan Man]

Er, I hesitate to speak for either Fordim or Boromir88, but I should imagine that it was their intention that this poll apply to the characters that we meet in the book, rather than those portrayed in the films. They are (in case anyone had not noticed ) different.

[Morsul the Dark]

Thats was my fault on legolas i trailed off into movie leggy. Let me rephrase what I said about him to be more book specific...

Legolas was the son of mirkwood's king so he kind of had the sam scenario as boromir going and he as was mentioned somewhere else on the site not at the battle of five armies we could consider his father upset with him so legolas would be more prone to bring him a "mighty Gift" to make peace of mind with his father

[Mithalwen]

Pippin would not have seized the ring.. but if it fell into his hands I think it is inevitable that he would have tried it out simply because "he won't be said" .... his personality is that he has to drop stone into wells and find out the hard way - Boromir is also a stone thrower - think of the watcher in the water!

[Boromir88]

This poll was suggested by Boromir88 so don't come blaming me.

Oh darn, you found my evil plan. I was hopeing to sick one of the Mod's on you so you can no longer be competition in the points standings, but as I said you found out....

Anyway, onto the thread...

Now I did vote for Legolas, but I think it would be pretty close between him, Aragorn, or Pippin. So let me explain some of my decisions.

First, people on why I don't think they would fall next...

Gimli- Maybe the strongest case can be made for him (besides Gandalf). One he doesn't see the ring as a weapon as Boromir would have. That was Boromir's biggest flaw, and how the Ring was able to take hold of him easily. To dwarves, I don't think they would see the Ring as a weapon, but as to acquire more wealth. Which, of course could be a downfall, and why Gimli would eventually fall to the Ring. But, I don't see him as being as strongly tempted by it as Boromir was, since he saw it as a weapon. Also, while dwarves may get greedy and want the ring to acquire more wealth, Gimli can be a special case as Galadriel declares

"and Gold shall never have dominion over you."~Farewell to Lorien.

Sam, Merry and Frodo- Hobbits seem to be more resistant to the Ring than the other races, again they don't desire the power. Sam was tempted, but he succeeded, and his love for Frodo drove him on. Merry, I honestly can't see much temptation in him. And Frodo was able to hold off his temptation until the decision to throw it into Mount Doom came up (and as shown by Tolkien in his letter to Milton Waldman this was deemed as impossible for anyone).

Gandalf- Obvious answer, already refused to take the Ring. Though he did show a fear in being tempted by it, so he could be a little weaker than what some think.

As for who would fall and the reasons, I must depart, but promise I shall continue. Sorry, to make you wait. (Though I'm sure you're all anxious)

[Glirdan]

Ok, if you are going by the book characters, than I honestly have no idea who I would chose. Maybe Pippin seeing as he fell to the lure of the palantir. Gandalf, for obvious reasons, would not. Frodo succumbed to it, but only when he was going to throw it into the Cracks of Doom. I do not see Merry succumbing to it. Maybe it's because of his close kinship with Frodo and out of love, he would not even dare to try it. Sam is Frodo's "servant" and Sam loves Frodo deeply, so that's why he would not. Not to mention, when he carried the Ring and gave it back to Frodo, he was somewhat reluctant to give it back. In that case, he COULD have kept it, or done what he did. So he is another one up on the chopping block. Now this is where it gets difficult. Aragorn had a lot of chances to take the Ring and he never did so, if I could, I would change my vote and make it some one else. Gimli and Legolas both knew the power that the Ring contained and they both have strong will power. So if I had to change my vote to anybody it would be ++Pippin.