Do Balrogs Have Wings?

I don't know if anyone has brought this up before, but Arien, the Maya chosen to guide the vessel of the sun, is a spirit akin to the balrogs. to quote the sil: she was "from the beginning a spirit of fire, whom Melkor had not deceived nor drawn to his service." i've always wondered how she traversed the heavens. perhaps wings? then couldn't balrogs also have wings?

personally, i've always been an anti-winger, based on the fact that Balrogs are Maiar and therefore can change their shape. So i always thought they had or didn't have wings depending on their choice of shape.


For what it's worth....

[Folwren]

Originally posted by obloquy:
excuse me, but as a retard, I must object to your use of the word "retarded" in this context.

I am very sorry that I offended you. It was entirely unintentional. I'll be more careful in my choice of words next time I feel like...being not exactly nice.

- Folwren

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by mithrandir094

So i always thought they had or didn't have wings depending on their choice of shape.


For what it's worth....

I'm sorry falwren this quote was more what I meant

and also if all balrogs are maiar right and they all formed the same, then why wouldnt the five wizards also form exactly the same and vice versa.

[the guy who be short]

The Balrogs were fallen Maiar. Generally, a fallen Maia or Vala would become stuck in one form, sort of as a punishment (well, more as a plot device really). So I'd argue against Balrog Shapeshifting.

The Istari took the likeness of human forms - but they could presumably strip themselves of these at need. Thus, Gandalf the Grey Uncloaked.

[Gurthang]

Well, Balrogs have always had wings to me. The whole 'shadow spreading from wall to wall like wings' quote and then one of those threads that Fordim linked for us provided me with more evidence to support my decision.

But I want to point out that wether they have wings or not is not really found in the text. It seems that if we believed that Balrogs did have wings before all these debates, we read all the text in a way that supports our conclusion. Likewise, if we didn't believe before, then we are inclined to see the writings as discounting the possibility. So really, I've always thought they had wings, and I think that any reference would just support my side. Yet that same reference will support the other side, because they will read it so.

So this debate is really just how we have felt from the beginning, not how it really is.

[Bêthberry]

I don't see why balrogs wouldn't have wings, although they might prefer buffalo chips and hamburgers as more substantial fare. Think of the crispy fries!

[Kuruharan]

Does anybody have any idea what Zimmerman's Balrog looked (or would have looked) like?

If we could find that out I think we'd have our answer right there.

Just for the record (even though I think I've said this elsewhere) there are two primary objections I have to Balrog wings.

A) If the Balrog had wings that spread all the way across the 2nd Hall, how did it manage to get those wings into the Chamber of Mazarbul? This “folding” the wings business does not hold water because the Balrog has arms which would be mightily in the way of folding. And even so, hundreds of feet of wingspan are not going to just fold into a nice small package. They would at the very least have to be wrapped around the Balrog several score of times so that it would be essentially tied up. If the Balrog folds the wings on its back rather than its sides that is going to create one Udun of a pile of stuff on his back that is probably not going to easily fit through anything.

Besides if the Balrog has a wingspan a hundred feet wide then they will probably stretch far above its head when folded creating another set of problems in getting through doors.

B) If the Balrog had wings that spread all the way across the 2nd Hall, how did it manage to get the body necessary to support those wings into the Chamber of Mazarbul?

I've never seen a good response to these points. Usually when they are brought up the pro-wingers start humming and hawing and try to change the subject.

If one assumes no wings and a Balrog whose actual body was no more than 10-15 feet tall (and probably at the lower end of that), all problems with interpreting the texts suddenly vanish (like a Balrog falling into an abyss).

Also, I’m not so sure that most of the Fellowship, aside from Gandalf, really got a good look at the thing. It’s chief characteristic was it’s darkness. Darkness is a bit hard to see through. Note that when the Balrog takes a stab at Gandalf, the Fellowship can’t even see it’s flaming sword because of the shadow until it slices at Gandalf. I don’t think they could really see it.

Now, I'm perfectly well aware that all of these things have already been said, however, repetition and beating one's own chest are themes of this type of debate...so there!

EDIT: I used to be a member of the pro-wing camp but I found it impossible to successfully answer the above points and was thus forced to change my position.

[Gurthang]

Here's a new thought that I certainly haven't heard: Shape-shifting.

Beorn in The Hobbit was able to change completely into a bear. A Balrog, presumably a more potent(I use that to mean having more power of spirit or Fea or might, whatever you want to call it) creature than Beorn, could very plausibly 'create' these wings at need and then simply 'uncreate' them to fit into a tight spot. I mean to say that he would simply push his shoulders out to make the wings and then the Balrog would simply shed them away. And since shape-shifting was not unheard of in Middle-Earth, this could easily have happened.

Now, I know you are all shouting 'but a Balrog is stuck in that form!' Well, who's to say that it couldn't slightly alter its form? I mean, what difference would this be from say, reaching out with it's arm? It simply extends part of itself; stretching out sideways, if you will.

Well, I think it would work. I'll just sit back now, and let you all ridicule me for my strange possibility.