Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Oddwen]

Okay, then.
I'll try for IIX, then.

[littlemanpoet]

Now that the Finale of Werewolf VI is academic, I'm going to post up a few reflections on strategy. Please convince me I'm wrong about any of this, if you can.

The Mythomaniac is such a powerful wildcard that it creates the equivalent to a permanent power play in hockey. The Cursed Villager served that function for the werewolves already in Game III & IV, but was in Game IV balanced by the existence of a wealth of gifted innocents, not to mention the fact that the CV got lynched quickly.

That the MM became Seer#2 in game VI, gave the innocents such a powerful advantage that the werewolves didn't have a chance unless the innocents really bungled. The fact that there were so few ungifted innocents was no liability, but instead belied an embarrassment of riches in terms of gifted innocents.

After the Seer, the most powerful role, if used wisely, is not Ranger nor Hunter, but the two Shirriffs, revealed (on day 2, not day 1, I think) as known innocents. It effectively takes the initiative away from the werewolves until the werwolves can get rid of the shirriffs, which takes no less than 2 Nights.

All of this rehash to reiterate something I said before, which has now been proven out: if gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, the werewolves are at a disadvantage. Further, the more experienced players we have, the harder it's going to be for the werewolves to win.

In Game V, if The Guy had been a known innocent, Feanor's set of double bluffs would not have been nearly as effective. In the same game, if the MM had become an additional Ranger or Hunter, or a second Seer, it would have tipped the balance against the werewolves so much that I think they'd have had a real hard time pulling off a win instead of the romp they experienced.

So I have two suggestions for future mods:

(1) If gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, you will keep a better balance in the game by having a Cursed Villager instead of a Mythomaniac.

(2) The Mythomaniac needs to be rendered less of a doom-thrower against whichever side it does NOT wind up on. Therefore, try instead of having a one-time MM choice, have the Moderator do a random nightly choice such that the role of the MM changes every two Nights; this means that the MM could be a Seer for two Days and two Nights, then a werewolf for two Days and two Nights.

Like I said, please convince me I'm wrong about this stuff if you think I am.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No point in arguing, LMP, because you're absolutely right. The second Footie picked Oromin, I knew the village had it in the bag. Mith can vouch that I claimed I'd cry if they lost.

As much as I like the Mytho as a wildcard, I think [s]he gives too much sway to whichever side [s]he picks. In WWV, it was a fantastically close game, and cleverly played (not to brag, but it was). But I doubt it would turn out like that again.

And gifted villagers outweighing normal is too much. Quite honestly, I think going back to a game with just wolves and a seer would be a blast, now that we're getting the hang of it.

[mormegil]

One thing I thought about this game coincides with your thoughts LMP but differs slightly. The villagers were simply too powerful. Especially with Firefoot picking to be a seer...good job by the way...and then our Shirriffs played wonderfully. I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles. Remeber though in the previous game Kath (mytho) choose to be a werewolf much to the disadvantage of the villagers.

I don't agree that having the mytho change roles every other night is such a good idea. I think it would be confusing for all involved. Especially the poor moderator who is trying to keep up as it is.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Cheers morm. The job gives you a lot more admiration for all of our mods and admins for keeping up with everything.

It would definately be a pain trying to keep up with changing mytho roles, but here's what makes it worse: what if, for two nights, the Mytho was a wolf, and then the Mytho was changed to a villager? [S]he would be able to give away the accomplices in one fell swoop, again giving the village the undefeatable power play.

I agree that only in big games (minimum 15 players) should every role be used, if then. With small, it's just too easy to figure out, and the game's more fun when you're asking yourself constantly if you screwed up horribly.

[Oddwen]

True, the more "active" gifteds do make for a swift game. Having the Sherriffs and something else is probably more beneficial to a game with a whooole lot more players.
If one insists on lots of gifteds, a "Cobbler" might be a good addition to the WW's side, but then it's probably going too far.

"Fea is a werewolf!"
"No, I'm the hunter."
"I thought you were the guardian?"
"No, I, Kath am the guardian"
"Sauce and the phantom are the sherriffs!"
"I'm a werewolf! I'm a werewolf!"
"Shut up Nilp, we know you're the cobbler."
"Isn't ANYONE a regular villager??"


Sounds like godmodding in an RPG...

[Holbytlass]

I'm glad this subject of gifted/ungifted ratio has been brought up, I didn't want to sound like sour-grapes. I feel the pendulum has swung too far the other way than at the first couple of games where there were so many players, it was hard to pinpoint any wolf down to now where unless all of the wolves had great skill (I speak for myself when I confess I do not) they don't stand a fair chance against an almost total gifted village.

I agree that a system of which gifted roles are used depends upon the number of players.

I still thoroughly enjoyed playing as always! And I'll have to check, but am I the first person to be a wolf twice?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It is, of course, up to Firefoot to decide how many players she wants in her game. I'm in agreement with all who have just there posted. If there are only 12 players in the next game then I suggest limiting gifted villagers to one Seer and possibly one Guardian. If there are 19 players then by all means throw in all the other roles.

But it's up to the all-powerful mod.

By the way, um.....playing in a game of Werewolf? Hmmm.....sounds like a novelty.... I'm in, if allowed.

Edit to add: Holby, you are my antithesis: you always have some groovy role as opposed to the resident Ordinary Villager Extraordinaire.

[mormegil]

If Eomer is in I feel that I can request joining as well. You may have been in more than I have so far, which is hard to believe.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've had a part in numerous games but I've only lasted an accumulated 3 days.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Edit to add: Holby, you are my antithesis: you always have some groovy role as opposed to the resident Ordinary Villager Extraordinaire.

I'm feeling the connection!!

HEY!! We've had the cobbler in the last 2 games!! Nilp, I mean Adam, no wait Nilp!!

I must decline in joining this game. I have a 2 game-in-a-row limit, I need a bigger break for my head and then I get all ansty to do it again!!

[Saurreg]

I'm in.

Been away for the last few days. Missed all the excitement...

LMP & TGWBS - Your coordinated move to reveal yourselves as sherriffs was the linchpoint of the game. A masterful stroke that proved to be the drop of water that made the cup runneth over. Good play. Well done. Bravo!

Firefoot - Very astute. You posted just enough every round so that neither one of us lycans ever suspected you. Good job.

[Firefoot]

I've been thinking along some of the same lines for the next game. For WW VII, I want the number of ordinary innocents to at least equal the number of gifted innocents - if we keep all the rules, this means 15+ players.

I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles.

Agreed. If this game has fewer than 15 people, both the Mytho and the Shirriffs will not be used. I would like to see the game have 15-20 players, though... in some ways it's more interesting. But if not that many people are interested, so be it.

I'm not sure I like the Mythomaniac, at least not in such a small game. Between the Mytho and the Shirriffs, the game turned completely analytical and based off of knowns and facts, rather than suspicions and puzzle pieces (if you know what I mean?). I'm thinking about bringing the Cursed Villager back instead of the Mytho. Thoughts on this?

Also, the Shirriffs. I like the roles, but as we have now discovered it is a real advantage when the rest of the villagers know who they are. What if we kept the role but banned the Shirriffs from revealing their roles?

The cobbler sounds interesting - I'd be interested in giving it a shot.

Now, I don't know that I'd make all the changes I suggested here... it may tip the balance towards the wolves, but I'd like to know which ones you like/dislike.

Oh yeah:

Let's see... I predict a villager win. Thanks to whoever started it, if WW IV was "A New Hope," and WW V certainly fits the bill for "The Werewolves Strike Back"...

I was right.