Elendil's Sword and Sauron's Ring

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mansun, that's most likely because Sauron was already overthrown and defeated when Isildur used Narsil to cut the ring from his finger.

I'm not sure about that - there is no direct evidence. Mordor was overthrown, but not Sauron, as he still had the Ring on and so was still in power. The most logical answer was that Sauron was still barely vulnerable even with the Ring, and Isildur hit a lucky blow with Narsil probably which caught Sauron by suprise, knocking the Ring off (and then the finger) away from the Darklord.

Just for the record, nobody 'killed' Sauron, they only temporarily destoyed him in the physical form. And if the WK or Gandalf were struck with Narsil, who can say that anything would have happened?

[Boromir88]

I can't find the exact quotes but it sounds like you know the ones I'm talking about. Where it states Elendil and Gil-galad overthrew Sauron. That has always been debated as whether meaning Sauron or "Sauron's forces" were overthrown. But if you think about Gollum's quote where he says he has 4 fingers on a black hand then it surely points that after Gil-galad and Elendil had overthrown him Isildur came up and cut off the ring. Not by a lucky blow, or a slice that Jackson shows or Sauron would have lost more fingers instead of just one.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Sauron was overthrown because he was dead.

Not 'dead' as in 'never to return to the world'; but 'dead' as in 'lying motionless in a crumpled heap on the floor'.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Sauron was overthrown because he was dead.

Not 'dead' as in 'never to return to the world'; but 'dead' as in 'lying motionless in a crumpled heap on the floor'.

Where is the evidence for this? Was there anybody capable of defeating Sauron to cause him to ''die''? You could just as easily say that he was caught by a lucky blow, as shown in the film, as this seems more realistic. What's more, I think Sauron slew the mighty Elendil, so how could have anybody else done the same to Sauron?

By curiosity, where were the Nazgul just before Sauron fell? Were they not meant to be defending their master until the bitter end?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've been looking through some threads and consensus seems to be that 'we cannot know for sure'. Tolkien didn't give a detailed analysis of the Battle so we are left speculating. I guess you could argue for both ideas: Isildur either cut off the finger after Sauron had perished or as he was injured and fallen.

But to answer the original question, you could definitely stick a sword through him! Whether you were powerful or brave enough is another matter entirely.

[Firefoot]

From "The Council of Elrond":

"I was at the Battle of Dagorlad before the Black Gate of Mordor, wehere we had the mastery: for the spear of Gil-galad and the Sword fo Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword, and took it for his own." -Elrond

Sauron killed Elendil and Gil-galad, but at the same time they overthrew Sauron - "killing" him, per se. So Sauron was already overthrown by the time Isildur cut off ring and finger.

Originally Posted by Mansun

By curiosity, where were the Nazgul just before Sauron fell? Were they not meant to be defending their master until the bitter end?

Did anybody find this out?

[Gil-Galad]

The Nazgul were probably busy fighting the rest of the army, remember, Sauron came out to fight after about a month of the siege of Barad-Dur, the Nazgul could have been defeated during the battle of Dagorlad as well.

Keep in mind, after Narsil was shattered, it was reforged into Anduril by Elvish smiths, so it had Dwarvish and Elvish smithing techniques, which may have made the blade weaker due to illregualrity in the techniques.