LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 03 - The Muster of Rohan

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by davem

Certainly, she doesn't simply want to die - she could just slash her wrists or hang herself if that was all she desired.

That would be too uncharacteristic of her to do. After everything she had declared to Aragorn about her being a shieldwoman, choosing that manner of death would be like an insult to herself. If she were to die, she wanted to die the way Aragorn will. Maybe at least in that way she thought they could be together. Which brings me to wonder...did she expect to see Aragorn again in the battlefield at all, a potential driving force behind her action?

Originally Posted by davem

Oddly, it is her desire to 'die' that inspires her to act, to move, & not simply curl up into a ball & waste away in despair. It seems, almost, that her desire for 'death' is what finally makes her do something, makes her take control of her life & act. Its almost as if before she wanted to die she was unable to truly live. Its as if she didn't truly seek her own death - much as she may have thought she did: what she truly sought was the 'death' of her old self. Deep down, all unawares, it seems what she wanted was to live, to be fullly & completely alive. Maybe this is what she saw & responded to in Merry.

Ironically, as she goes 'searching for death,' she gives life to another. Merry, when discharged from Theoden's service and told to stay behind, had died - he had nothing left to live for. All his original companions are gone. There was nothing he could do for his part in the War, when all his friends are involved in some way. He was 'dead,' not living but merely existing. And then this person who goes in search of death gives him life by taking him on 'his' horse. Dernhelm thought he was helping a fellow 'death-searcher' but in actuality they are both on the road to a life that is really lived.

Confound this rep rule, but I just want to say that those thoughts are really good.

[davem]

The Red Arrow

All I can find is this - (which is what I'd already come up with myself on searching through UT - there's no mention in HoMe)

I think, though, that the account in Cirion & Eorl was written after LotR, so the question that springs to mind is, was this story already in Tolkien's mind when he wrote of the Red Arrow in LotR, or was it based on something else, & the later account 'invented' as an explanation within the secondary world?

It is certainly an 'odd' symbol to use - how old was the Red Arrow? There seems to be a history behind it which Theoden was aware of. He only had to see it in Hirgon's hand to understand exactly what it meant. It seems from Theoden's words that it is a sign of absolute desperation on Gondor's part - 'Has it indeed come to that?' It seems that it declares Gondor to be in extremis, at the absolute point of complete destruction. Certainly, Hirgon could have told Theoden that Gondor was in deep trouble, but it seems that Denethor felt that would not be enough & he had to send the Red Arrow as well. It does seem that it had a very powerful symbolic value, & to be calling on the Rohirrim to fullfil an oath.

This is interesting in the light of the events of this & the previous chapter - oaths run through both, ones held & ones forsworn.

In passing, I also wonder what the 'mark' painted on the arrow was.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

The one point I must make about this chapter is how it demonstrates more than any other the 'place' of Merry in the overall structure. Frodo and Sam are off on their moral/emotional/psychic/psychological journey while Pippin is 'bearing witness' to the passing of the old world in the form of Denethor. They are the more passive members of the hobbits, insofar as they are 'along for the ride' as it were, with Frodo and Sam placing their hope and faith in providence (although still struggling mightily on their own) and following the guidance of Gollum. Pippin, on the other hand, while at the centre of things, is the companion of Gandalf and acting as a pair of hobbitish eyes onto the great events.

But here, Merry comes into his own. We talked about him and his remarkable character a lot in the early chapters, but it's not until now, I think, that he steps forward as the most truly representative hobbit of them all. Two lines stand out for me:

He longed to shut out the immensity in a quiet room by a fire.

On the one hand, the sheer weight of the history and landscape that's about him is too much, and he desires a very hobbitish thing: to retreat from it into comfort. But of course he doesn't do that, instead he says:

"I would not have it said of me in song only that I was always left behind!"

Still very hobbitish in its way, insofar as he is thinking of the songs that will be sung in that snug little room where he wishes he could be. Also very hobbitish insofar as he does not want songs telling how grand and heroic he is, but just that he went to the war and did his bit.

But the key point to make about Merry here is that it is Aragorn who has left orders that he be armed for battle -- hugely important. Frodo and Sam were 'outfitted' for their trek into Mordor by Faramir: a good guy to have as your armourer, but he's no Aragorn! Pippin has been put into arms by Denethor -- poor, pure, foolish, great-hearted Pippin, caught up as usual in circumstances far beyond his control and understanding, but doing his level best in them. Of all the hobbits, it's only Merry who recieves his arms from Aragorn -- it's ironic that he is clad in armour and arms of Rohan, of course, but it was Aragorn who told Eowyn to make some arrangement for him. I find this so hugely important insfoar as Aragorn has clearly had an almost Gandalf-moment of prescience or awareness as he has 'seen' in some way that Merry will both need and earn his arms. Aragorn is 'aware' on some level of the Providential Plan that will have Eowyn and Merry together at the Pelennor to destroy the witch king.

I don't think it's a mistake that there is also talk in this chapter about the shadowy host that passed through dunharrow to meet with Aragorn. These two acts of meeting the ghost army and arming Merry are Aragorns' first tangible acts of Kingship over Gondor: he has certainly been acting like a King before, but these are the first acts OF the King as he commands the fealty of those who swore their oath to Isildur, and sets in motion the events that will lead to Merry's heroics in defense of Minas Tirith.

And all Faramir does for Frodo and Sam is give them some nuts, some walking sticks and some really obvious advice...Aragorn is way cooler than that!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Fordhim

But here, Merry comes into his own. We talked about him and his remarkable character a lot in the early chapters, but it's not until now, I think, that he steps forward as the most truly representative hobbit of them all. Two lines stand out for me:

Master Fordhim is very correct, it seems to me, about the Hobbitness of this statement. Indeed, I should that there is a lot The Hobbit to this statement. It strikes me as highly reminiscent of all those lines in The Hobbit when Bilbo thinks back to Bag-End and its larder as his refuge.

There's also, to my mind, a similar theme between this chapter and the part of The Hobbit immediately before the Battle of the Five Armies. In both cases we have hobbits (as noted, of a very similar nature) all alone and caught up in a large buildup towards war, over which they have little or no control. Both want to do something, but are concerned that they are too small or unimportant.

[davem]

'This journey is over, maybe,' said Theoden, 'but I have far yet to go. Last night the moon was full, and in the morning I shall ride to Edoras to the gathering of the Mark.'
'But if you would take my counsel,' said Eomer in a low voice, 'you would then return hither, until the war is over, lost or won.'
Theoden smiled. 'Nay, my son, for so I will call you, speak not the soft words of Wormtongue in my old ears!'

This is one of those moments, the full significance of which may be lost on a reader not paying attention. On the surface its a touching comment by an old man to his nephew, & I wonder how many readers take it as just that? Obviously, its far more than that. Theoden is King of Rohan & his 'son' is his heir apparent. Here he is effectively telling Eomer that he is to be the next king - & he is clearly thinking that this event will take place soon. He does not say it in so many words, but he strongly implies that his life will soon be over. His next words are:

He drew himself up and looked back at the long line of his men fading into the dusk behind. 'Long years in the space of days it seems since I rode west; but never will I lean on a staff again. If the war is lost, what good will be my hiding in the hills? And if it is won, what grief will it be, even if I fall, spending my last strength? But we will leave this now. Tonight I will lie in the Hold of Dunharrow. One evening of peace at least is left us. Let us ride on!'

These words are spoken to Eomer alone - though probably Merry & a few others hear them - & they are meant, I think, to prepare him for what is soon to happen.

Theoden will lead his warriors into battle, but he does not expect to lead them from battle. That is to be Eomer's task. Of course, the 'formal' declaration will take place on the fields of the Pelennor, when Theoden orders that Eomer be given his banner:

Then one of the knights took the king's banner from the hand of Guthlaf the banner-bearer who lay dead, and he lifted it up. Slowly Theoden opened his eyes. Seeing the banner he made a sign that it should be given to Eomer.
'Hail, King of the Mark!' he said. 'Ride now to victory! Bid Eowyn farewell!' And so he died, and knew not that Eowyn lay near him. And those who stood by wept, crying: 'Theoden King! Theoden King!'

Eomer accepts the banner & the responsibility that goes with it, in part because he has been made aware at this earlier point that he is to be king after Theoden's fall. In this chapter we see Theoden's concern for his people & what will become of them after his fall. So many of his words to Eomer, Eowyn & others are intended to prepare them for his death, in the hope that it will not come as too much of a shock when it happens.

Of course, what his words here also show is that he has come to terms with the loss of Theodred. His son & heir is dead, but his people cannot be left bereft of a leader. I can't help but recall that not so long since he had had Eomer 'confined to quarters' & wonder whether that wasn't an act of 'denial' as regards the death of his son. Now, in these few words, we see that a major change has taken place in Theoden's attitude to his nephew. He has been released from Grima's 'spell' & can live (& die) a free man, knowing his people will be in good hands.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

On the surface its a touching comment by an old man to his nephew, & I wonder how many readers take it as just that? Obviously, its far more than that. Theoden is King of Rohan & his 'son' is his heir apparent. Here he is effectively telling Eomer that he is to be the next king - & he is clearly thinking that this event will take place soon.

Did Eomer expect to be heir or not? As far as I can tell he was the closest relative to Theoden and so we might assume he would be the heir, but as there has been a 'history' between them during the time Theoden was under the influence of Grima, here he obviously needs to clarify that Eomer is still heir to Rohan.

That makes me wonder who he might have had in mind when he was under Grima's influence? Surely not Grima? This could have been behind Saruman's strategies - a man under his own influence in power, or civil war. Even so, I think that maybe the Kingship would have been beyond Grima's hopes, but he may have been pursuing Eowyn in the hope that she would be named heir. After marriage and her taking the throne, he would then have sought to influence her and effectively be ruler himself. That would have led to an interesting tale, given the hidden strengths and depth of determination that she possessed.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Lalwende

That makes me wonder who he might have had in mind when he was under Grima's influence? Surely not Grima?

No one is another likely answer. Rohan bereft of a ruler is very likely to fall into the hands of Saruman. That could have been his plan - using Grima to turn the king into someone very incompetent and incapable of leadership, not even able to name someone who would take his place. This will in turn cause chaos in Rohan, during which Saruman will step in and do his thing. Of course there would be people like Eomer and Theodred who would dare stand up against him and will struggle to edify the kingdom, but with Theoden's condition on their minds they would be much too distracted to reach their full potential.

I read the chapter again, and what kept on reverberating in my mind is Merry and the Paths of the Dead.

'But as for the Paths of the Dead, you have yourself walked on their first steps. Nay, I speak no words of ill omen! The road that we have climbed is the approach to the Door, yonder in the Dimholt. But what lies beyond no man knows.' (Eomer)

And later

'I will be ready,' said Merry, 'even if you bid me ride with you on the Paths of the Dead.'
'Speak not words of omen!' said the king. For there may be more roads than one that could bear that name. But I did not say that I would bid you ride with me on any road.'

'I won't be left behind, to be called for on return!' said Merry. 'I won't be left, I won't.'

I was touched by Merry's seeming 'welcome' to the Paths of the Dead. If we recall, Legolas came with Aragorn for he did not fear the Dead, and Gimli only decided to willingly step out when he found 'An Elf going underground where a Dwarf will not' (or something like that). In any case, they showed other motives or reasons else for going into the Paths, other encouragements apart from the fact that they are going with a friend, and going with a purpose. Merry, on the other hand, was only driven by his love for Theoden, his desire to be of service to him and in some way, to fulfill his sworn oath. He did not have any solid knowledge of the Paths of the Dead nor of anything else concerning their road or destination, but he swears to be with him whatever road he takes, nevertheless.

But then again, was he really driven by Theoden, or by the fear that he would be left behind alone? Was he really as selfless as I think he was, or was he just in pursuit of his own glory?

In any case, he did go on his own Paths of the Dead, as we'll see later on in the story.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Did Eomer expect to be heir or not? As far as I can tell he was the closest relative to Theoden and so we might assume he would be the heir, but as there has been a 'history' between them during the time Theoden was under the influence of Grima, here he obviously needs to clarify that Eomer is still heir to Rohan.

I wonder about this...

Certainly, after Theodred's death, Eomer was the logical heir, as both Theoden's nephew and an experienced Marshal of the Mark.

But was he Theoden's only nephew... I wonder....

Remember, Theoden had FOUR sisters. I think it very unlikely that only Theodwyn married. Statistically, I would guess that three of them married. In all likelihood, Rohirrim probably having the large families typical of a pre-modern society, Theoden had a couple more nephews, who were probably a fair bit older than Eomer (the son of the youngest sister), and who may have had grown sons themselves.

Of course, Eomer and Eowyn have a special status in that they were raised by Theoden and were essentially Theodred's adopted siblings.

Still, perhaps there WERE other nephews out there. I think it likely. Certainly, it would explain why Theoden would feel the need to declare Eomer his heir. If Eomer were the only nephew, he would naturally fall in place after Theodred's death, nephew or no.