Everyone trusts in Eru?

[Gurthang]

Originally posted by davem
I'd only say that knowing what will happen (ie Eru's omniscience) is very different from making it happen (ie Eru's omnipotence). Eru may know exactly what will happen, but that doesn't necessarily mean that He causes it to happen...

Which is where, I think, free will on the part of Men (at least) doesn't conflict with Eru's full knowledge of what Men will decide to do.

I've heard that point before, but I don't think I agree with it. It seems to me that if someone knows what will happen, and has actually planned out what will happen, then it must happen. It doesn't make sense that free will exists when the future is certain.

Earlier davem pointed out that the Music is fate to all but men. Yet something in that quote befuddles me. The word 'beyond' seems to say 'apart', insomuch that 'beyond the Music of the Ainur' is apart from the circles of Arda. What I mean is that men follow the Music while they live in Ea, but then they pass on to somewhere else, and there have the chance to shape themselves. So 'beyond the Music of the Ainur' would mean after they die and live Ea.

Yet that same quote blows everything I just said by also stating that Men 'should have a virtue to shape their life, amid the powers and chances of the world'. I read that as it's saying in the world and apart from the world at the same time, but that doesn't make a lot of sense.